Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rookie needs expert opinion

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I would personally suggest getting a .40. Not that there is anything wrong with 9mm. Stopping power, killing power.....blah.....blah....... That's all crap the only shot that will stop a human dead in their tracks is to seperate the spine from the brain stem. Now if Johnny ****bug is shooting at you generally you won't have time line up the sights and gently squezze the trigger delievering a fatal shot. You'll be like me, lead down range, find place to hide ***, return more fire, get shotgun........

    I suggest a .40 because when you have to put lead into someone a large hole + kinetic energy is better in that instance.
    Sometimes, doing the right thing means p***ing off the bosses.

    "And shepherds we shall be, for thee my lord for thee."

    Originally posted by dontknowwhy
    I still think troopers and deputies who work in the middle of no where with essentially no back up are the 'men among men' of the LEO world.
    Originally posted by weinerdog2000
    as far as your social experiment, if we cant film you then you cant film us, we will arrest you for obstruction of our freedom.

    Comment


    • #17
      9mm or 40 cal its up to you which you feel more comfortable with, theres nothing wrong with either cartridge.. but out of the choices you named I would go with a SIG or Glock.. both are great guns and you should have no problem adjusting to either of them

      Comment


      • #18
        I recommend as have several others that you go to the range and see which feels better. All of your listed choices will work fine , it's a matter of seeing which actually feels the most comfortable when YOU shoot.

        Comment


        • #19
          I have been shooting for years and have really tried to stay away from glock but only for personal prefrence. When deployed in teh Middle East I was issued a Sig 226 in 40 cal and feel in love. I now own 3 in 9, 357, and 40. Good luck and god speed on findiong the right one for you. No one can tell you which you have to decide.
          "Live like NO ONE else so later you can LIVE like no one else"....Dave Ramsey


          sigpic

          Comment


          • #20
            They are all good weapons. I would go shoot atleast 50 rounds through each. The one that is the most comfortable, and accurate for you is the one I would buy.

            Comment


            • #21
              1) Look at your prospective employer. If, for instance, your top three choices are all using .40 caliber, then it's a good idea to lean in that direction. What make and model do they use? It may be that all three departments you are looking at, because they are in a general area, all moved over to Glocks. Regional preferences frequently occur, based upon factory reps in the area and their influence, or a "lead" agency's choice in firearms, or other factors.

              2) If you don't have a particular caliber chosen, choose the largest caliber that YOU CAN MASTER. The 9mm is easier, but bullet development aside, it will never be the stopper that the .40 is, since the same advanced technology used with the "new" 9mm bullets is used on the .40's, which means the 9's are still an anemic round in comparison. But the .40 kicks a little more. Remember, you are under pressure to make your grades, run, and shoot - all for score - as an academy student. If you have trouble with the .40, then get the 9mm, which is very much like a squirt gun and easier to fire. But the .40 is a far better round per the FBI, which was the agency that once influenced many agencies not to trade their more sensible rounds for the piddly 9mm in the 70's and 80's in the first place! When their agents got killed in Miami using the 9mm, they went about face with their ideas about this military pistol round.

              3) The Glock is truly a rugged and excellent pistol, and probably has the hands up for quick second shots and control over all the others (personal experience and testing against several brands, and I carried one in my Dept. for a while); but I just don't like a lack of an external safety. What if a twig or something gets into the trigger? I went to a close friend's funeral two years ago - a veteran Santa Maria motorcycle cop, SWAT officer, and training officer - who apparently shot himself in the leg and quickly died as he was putting his Glock in his gunbelt in the morning. Something snagged and the gun went off; we will never know how. But an external safety would have prevented that. The SIG and others are safer, from my view. Many disagree with my stance, and buy the Glock company line about the little thingy on the trigger making it a safe gun, or that its trigger pull is enough to prevent an accidental discharge. You decide; I don't buy that line, but had to put up with it when it was issued until I was given other choices, as we were eventually granted.

              4) Bottom line - buy what you will be using with your new employer. If you don't know, buy what you can shoot with the best. All brands named are quality pistols. I'd try to talk you out of a 9mm, since you may actually have to shoot somebody and make them stop attacking you. Despite all of the arguments, the .357, .45 and .40 have been proven in real-life situations as being far superior to 9mm's in police self-defense situations.
              Last edited by JohndeFresno; 08-17-2005, 10:11 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                John, I used to teach a class about the Miami shootout, and much more went wrong than the use of the 9mm round. Remember that the FBI fired around 147 rounds, and made a total of 12 hits on the bad guys - 11 by one Special Agent!
                So, the round used is irrelevant if you miss that much.
                "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                John Stuart Mill

                Comment


                • #23
                  Acknowledged, Sleuth. I didn't remember all of the circumstances, but still remember the woeful inadequacy of the rounds that were able to strike home. Don't you think that things would have been different if a .45 had been the caliber of choice - even with military ball ammo?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    No. All the furor about ammo was due to one round of WW 115g Silvertip, that performed exactly as designed.
                    In my professional opinion (27 years as a Federal Investigator), the problems of attitude and training are far more significant than caliber.

                    Rather than hijack this thread, I will just repeat my advice:

                    Learn on the least expensive gun and ammo. Then apply the btraining with the most powerful gun you can shoot ACCURATLY.
                    So, get the 9 for the academy, and a .40 or .45 once you know how to shoot.
                    "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                    John Stuart Mill

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sleuth
                      get the 9 for the academy, and a .40 or .45 once you know how to shoot.

                      I recently completed the firearms portion of the academy, and I agree with that advice. I'm a former firearms instructor and rangemaster, and a pretty damn good shot. However, in the academy you are firing about 300 rounds per day (more than I normally advice) which can cause one to develop bad habits (flinching, mashing, anticipating) if they are shooting a large caliber weapon. The 9mm has minimal recoil and muzzle flip, and is therefore easier to control.

                      Even though I am an experienced shooter I had to relearn things in the academy. I had to convert from the Weaver stance to the isosceles stance. The bottom line is that you will have enough to contend with in the academy without struggling to control a large caliber weapon over the course of few thousand rounds. Learn proper technique and develop good habits with the 9mm, then carry a large caliber weapon on the street.

                      I never intended to carry the 9mm Glock on the street; nevertheless, I am glad I made the choice to use it during the academy. When I graduate in two weeks I will carry my .40 cal Glock model 22.

                      Regards,

                      Phoenix
                      Phoenix

                      "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." ~Thomas Paine

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Well, all, that is what makes life interesting - different opinions.

                        I, too, am a career officer of more than 30 years full-time experience, and a few years as a sworn consulting peace officer (albeit I'm now a cybercop - a geek with a badge). My experience with firearms started at the age of 12, carried through combat in VN, and went on with two Sheriff's Departments and two State agencies; although my SO tactical team experience was perhaps the most relevant in as far as my research, testing and experiences with firearms in a tactical sense.

                        I admit that although I have taught other subjects -self-defense, Reserve Training Officer, Computer Investigations, statewide - I don't hang my teaching hat on firearms. But I'm a handloader and researcher, and I have almost always shot at the top of my group.

                        I need to revisit the Miami Massacre - something that we all studied here in California as part of our ongoing Officer Survival training; perhaps I have some of it wrong. Reading Sanow's stuff, I am not wrong the the 9mm is overrated, however, and it can't begin to compare in effectiveness to the tried and true .357 for putting an end to the fight, provided the officer can handle that caliber.

                        My view differs from some other esteemed and respected colleagues, here. I shot a .38 handgun as a youngster, then when I joined the Army I learned to fire the MILITARY .45 pretty effectively. Because I learned to overcome the recoil of this big gun through practice, it was easy to fire the 9mm and .38 squirt gun. I guess the reader has to make up his mind. As an aside, I taught my wife (who is no Jesse Ventura) to shoot handguns with the .45, and then she was deadly accurate with her little .380. It seems to me that when you teach somebody to drive a stick-shift car, then the automatic transmission model is much easier to master, rather than the reverse. With the several hundred rounds being fired at an academy or shooting school, I would think that any half-interested instructor would be available to help you overcome your flinching, which may not show up with a smaller caliber. That's my take, as I said; and although I don't hang a firearms training certificate on my sleeve, I have assisted many off-duty cops and civilians in learning to shoot or improve their scores.

                        It is my sincere desire that this controversy helps. If this writer is wrong, at least the information is submitted with the best of intentions! Like they say - "works for me."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I cannot trust anything that Sanow writes. He once wrote an article called "The Rise and Fall of the 147g 9mm", in Law & Order magazine. In the next issue, for the only time in the 30 years I have been reading this mag, they published an apology and retraction of the article! It seems numerous officers had written the magazine, showing that they had giving information about various shootings, which Sanow distorted or just lied about to fit his ideas. His deceit was documented beyond question, including letters from officers who had met with Sanow and gone over their shootings. Some of the shootings he claimed for his article did not even occur! At least, no one at the agency he named knew anything about them.

                          In one of the great ironies of our time, do you know who is the current editor of Law & Order?

                          Ed Sanow

                          So much for trusting a formerly well respected publication.

                          Why not start another thread about the Miami shootout - we have stolen enough space from this thread.
                          "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                          John Stuart Mill

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            See my thread, "Miami Massacre and 9mm"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              JohndeFresno,

                              In theory, I agree with you. If a person has good instruction and coaching they can start with a large caliber handgun and do just fine. I know because I taught hundreds of students, many who were new to handguns, precisely that way.

                              Unfortunately, both as an academy student here in Florida and as an instructor who trained numerous LEOs from California and Nevada after they had completed the academy, I can tell you that most police academy firearms instruction is woefully inadequate. If you go to an academy with bad habits, you will likely leave with bad habits. If you develop bad habits in the academy it will be unlikely that any of the instructors are trained well enough to diagnose or correct them.

                              Most law enforcement academy curricula are designed to get recruits minimally qualified and that is all - it's sad but true. Therefore, I would never recommend that a new shooter head off to a law enforcement academy with a large caliber handgun. If they are going to Thunder Ranch, Front Sight, Gun Site, Blackwater or another good school for instruction, my advice would be different.

                              Regards,

                              Phoenix
                              Phoenix

                              "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." ~Thomas Paine

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by USAcop
                                I can't think of any street cop that carries a 9mm.
                                Many big city street cops don't have any choice about what they carry. I carried a 9mm for 15 years (and a .38 SPL revolver for 4 yrs. before that) before my department started switching to .40's last year. And I am most definitely a street cop.

                                Comment

                                MR300x250 Tablet

                                Collapse

                                What's Going On

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 5683 users online. 343 members and 5340 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 26,947 at 08:36 PM on 12-29-2019.

                                Welcome Ad

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X