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  • 10 Mm

    Well on a lighter note,
    Does anyone else miss the 10mm,after all the .40 cal. is just a 10mm necked down.{and the .40 has been a big hit} The. 40 is just a fraction of what the 10 was.--- I own a colt delta elite in 10mm and have alwyays loved it.---357 power in an auto--- that is the best of both worlds.

    I would like to see more more manufacturers chamber this round anyone with me?

  • #2
    The 10mm has a small following as a hunting round. It died out when the .40 S&W (short & weak) and redesigned bullets produced the same results in smaller, more "user friendly" guns. The FBI tried to issue a 10mm, but the gun was so big the agents carried them in their briefcases.
    "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
    John Stuart Mill

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    • #3
      It died out when the .40 S&W (short & weak) and redesigned bullets produced the same results in smaller, more "user friendly" guns

      I dont know if Id say it produces the same results.
      Accurate Arms loading data shows the 155 bullet traveling at 994 FPS using No.9 powder for a maximum load in the .40 cal.

      Using the same bullet and the same powder the 10MM pushes the 155 at 1375 FPS...and that is a substantial gain with an major improvement in performance.

      The .40 aint even in the same league as the 10MM. As for .357 power in an auto, the 10 MM exceeds the capability of the .357 because of its larger bullet.

      The folks that think the 40 is about the same as a 10MM have obviously never shot the 10MM because there is a noticable difference in recoil and muzzle blast.

      I personally think that the 10 is the best semi auto round out there making all others pale in comparison.
      "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

      Norman Thomas

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      • #4
        I know that the females at Hampton, Va didn't like it due to the recoil. I loved the 10mm, just a semi-auto version of the old 41 magnum.
        "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

        For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

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        • #5
          The problem was that many in the various academys these days have never shot a gun until they went through the firearms part of it. THe 10MM is a handful...definatley not a begginers gun.
          A little stout on the recoil and muzzle blast and the grips for it are just too big for some folks to comfortably shoot.

          I still think it is the ultimate fighting cartridge as compared to all others. Where the rest fail to penetrate auto bodies the 10 does well, not to mention that it is flat shooting and accurate enough to fill up the kill zone on a B27 target at 100 yards if the shooter is up to snuff.

          If SIG would come out with something along the lines of a 220 in the 10MM I'd be the fist to buy one.
          "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

          Norman Thomas

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          • #6
            shortened case Don't know why I wrote necked down last night Wait a minute I do know---hey there both .400"

            Hornady lists the 357 ahead of the 10 in both velocity and energy

            I also would run to the store if sig offered the 220 in 10mm

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            • #7
              Accurate Arms list the 180 grain XTP at 1293 FPS for the .357.
              It lists the 180 grain XTP in the 10MM at 1242, however, it is a bigger bullet.

              Still the best thing going in a semi auto. Ive actually considered getting a 17 shot Glock 20 in 10mm. That would be the ultimate truck gun...
              "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

              Norman Thomas

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes sir

                might as well split hairs between the 10 and 357.

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                • #9
                  Watchman, I was considering the terminal effect, not the external ballistics. With modern bullet design, you can achieve much of the same effect with the smaller, more "user friendly" .40 or even the .45. I question the need to fire at someone 100 yards away, and with the proliferation of 'patrol rifles' these days, that need is even more reduced.

                  While we can theorize the need for the 10mm, and it obviously 'floats your boat', it is too big, with too much muzzle blast and recoil, in too heavy a gun for the average officer.

                  You like it, so enjoy it. After a long day, even my custom made pocket sized 9mm can feel a bit heavy. And we carry them a lot more than we need to shoot them.
                  "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                  John Stuart Mill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey, you can't just say custom made pocket 9mm w/o some more info on it. How about a pic and some specs.

                    I for one always loved the 10mm but never thought it right as an issue weapon for all the officers but perfectly fine for an allowable weapon for those departments who allow you to carry what you want w/i reason.
                    "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

                    For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      10mm popularity

                      The 10 is far from dead, it has several gunmakers still making firearms in this caliber, among them Glock (G-20, and G-29) S&W (610 revolver) Kimber (1911) STI (1911) Tanfoglio (Witness from EAA) This cannot be said of many other popular calibers like the .38 Super, .380, and Makarovs.

                      It's not a 9 or .40 in popularity, but it not dead. It has more viable bullet weights to select from than more calibers than you'd believe.

                      I've owned most 10's made, and still have several, It's NOT anywhere near a .41 in power except at the VERY low end possibly, but it does provide everything it was designed for even today, that being Law Enforcement needs. It was designed to "extend the range, and power of the .45".
                      Unfortunately the .45 was never a really popular choice among Leo's either.

                      Many early 10 makers underestimated the rearward push it gave and how able it was to make guns malfunction, and shooters flinch.

                      The fact of the matter is that 10's are being sought after by a respectable number of people including MANY of the ex FBI agents who owned S&W
                      1076's. This trend has driven prices up to near obscene levels on some gun models.

                      With that all said, if you're interested in the 10mm, check 10mmtalk.com, www.home.earthlink.net/~gnappi (my site) and others.


                      Regards,

                      Gary

                      My fave quotes:

                      Too many pieces of music finish too long after the end.
                      ~ Igor Stravinsky [Source: unknown]

                      Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ...
                      and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
                      ~ Werner Von Braun

                      Second place is no more than first place loser
                      ~Race car driver motto

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                      • #12
                        Gary, I was issued a S&W M19 21/2" nickeled gun for a number of years. I would never carry one now, but I would like to buy the one I carried, for sentimental reasons. And I'm sure some of the FBI agents who were issued a 1076 would want one for the same reasons.
                        The FBI finally realized that one gun does NOT fit all after they lost an employment lawsuit. Several trainees with smaller hands proved that they could easily qualify with 9mm & .45 handguns, but could not make the score with the large 10mm. That and the design defect the FBI demanded in the trigger system ended the procurement of the FBI version of the 1076 (which is NOT the same gun sold on the commercial market).

                        As for the pocket sized 9mm, it is a Tim LaFrance NOVA. Modified from a STAR BKM, it is smaller than a PPK, but full 9mm, with 6+1 in the pocket mag, and 8+1 if I use the STAR mags. With an alloy frame, it's light.
                        Tim bought so many BKM's that STAR bought two of his guns, and later came out with the FIRESTAR. In order to meet our import restrictions, they had to use a steel frame, and that gun is too heavy for pocket carry.
                        The NOVA is no longer in production, and mine is most definitly NOT for sale.
                        Last edited by Sleuth; 06-27-2005, 11:39 AM.
                        "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                        John Stuart Mill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Greetings,
                          I'm new here, but thought I would put my .02 into this topic.
                          I loved the 10mm and carried in in a Glock 20 for a period of time. Issue ammunition was Winchester 10/175 Silvertip. When I contacted Winchester in regard to ballistic testing that had been conducted on this cartridge and this loading, I was advised by the chief ballistician (spelling) at Winchester that they considered the 10mm to be "too powerful for general law enforcement usage" and that they had conducted zero ballisitic testing in gelitin on this round.
                          Needless to say, I was less than pleased by that email, as I could only imagine the possible ramifications in court. I no longer carry a 10mm.

                          Btw, if you are loading for the 10mm, take a look at Hogden Longshot. Exceptional velocity and accuracy. 1/10th of a grain over start charge matches the Winchester 175 silvertip in velocity with a 180 grain bullet.
                          Be safe,

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