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100% Qualification Urban Legend

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  • 100% Qualification Urban Legend

    Has anyone heard this urban police legend:

    "You should not shoot a qualification round of 100% because if you get into a deadly force situation, an attorney can make the argument that if you are expert enough to shoot 100%, maybe you should have shot the person in the arms or legs. Possibly making you the defendant in a law suit."

    I could not believe when a former LT (By the way he was fired for perjury)was telling new people this. I also heard of guys in other departments spewing the B.S. to their guys saying they heard of someone getting sued in this situation.

    I have been a firearms instructor for 17 years and to me this is ludicrous. The simple answers to why an officer does not shoot someone in the arms or legs if he can shoot 100% is because he is not trained to do so. Furthermore, we used FBI Q targets that have no arms or legs to shoot.

    Sorry for ranting a little, but I was just wondering if anyone else heard this bull?

    Sammy
    If I could keep one heart from breaking, I shall not live in vain. If I could ease one life the aching or cool one pain; or lift a fainting robin unto it's nest again, I shall not live in vain. Emily Dickinson
    www.samanthafund.com

  • #2
    I heard this excuse a few times, usually from an arrogant ***** because they want everyone to think they "missed on purpose." As far as I'm concerned, when I trained Snipers, I expected them to shoot perfect. If they didn't, they weren't on the team.
    Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. Barry Goldwater

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    • #3
      I would tell the prosecutor that no one misses on purpose, especially the bad guys. He should know that if the police are in a situation that involves a shooting, it's life and death and most gun holders are playing for keeps.

      "We are not trained in leg shooting, we are trained to stop the threat."
      A true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.

      -GK Chesterton

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      • #4
        "Sir, I aimed at the torso, because that is what I am proficient at hitting."
        Relax, the handcuffs are tight because they're new. They'll stretch out after you wear them for a while.

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        • #5
          No dept. or state qualification can relate to an actual shooting. 100% should be the REQUIREMENT. The state quals I have shot are generally not difficult, Ohio's is not hard at all. Shooting 100% on a dept. qual. makes you an average shooter not an expert in any sense. There are very few real experts in any field. Proficient is one thing...expertise is a whole different level. Rob Leatham is an expert shot, Doug Koenig is an expert shot, Dave Sevigny is an expert shot in their shooting games which have much higher difficulty than any PD qualification I have ever seen.
          Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

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          • #6
            I shot 'Master' class in the academy, but my firearms training certificate indicated 'adequate'. I was ****ED! I was told it was for the same reason as mentioned in the beginning of the thread. In my last department qualification, I shot (6) 100%s.
            "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
            -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

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            • #7
              With my dept, a 100% only means that you got all your rounds in the silohouette. The could be where the arms, head, or torso would be, as long as they're all somewhere on the white part of the target, you get a 100%.

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              • #8
                My 100%s were all '9s', '10s' and 'Xs'.
                "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
                -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

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                • #9
                  Total BS.

                  1. Most departments train center mass, it's a gross accuracy skill not a precise one.

                  2. Most shoot /don't shoot situations are based on the need to use lethal force. If you don't need to use lethal force, you don't shoot, if you do you do so to stop the threat.

                  3. In many states a shot that was designed to wound would be a maiming shot and you would get your *** sued.

                  4. If you as an officer don't follow your training and try and get creative, you will get sued, you may go to jail, and you will lose your job.

                  If ever asked I would suggest saying- " I followed my training and I shot to stop the threat."
                  Last edited by CQBARMS; 09-10-2004, 08:23 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I glad we're all on the same page. What angered me the most is that experienced officers were giving this line of BS to rookies.

                    Thanks for all of the replies.

                    Sammy
                    If I could keep one heart from breaking, I shall not live in vain. If I could ease one life the aching or cool one pain; or lift a fainting robin unto it's nest again, I shall not live in vain. Emily Dickinson
                    www.samanthafund.com

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                    • #11
                      Sammy, you have missed most of the BS about guns:
                      1. Semi Autos always jam
                      2. .45 ACP drops them in their tracks
                      3. Carry an empty gun in your holster, use your concealed backup (so if someone grabs your gun, they get an empty).
                      4. The only round to carry is the _____ (fill in the blank).
                      5. If my magnum hits them in the pinky, their head will explode from the shock.

                      and the beat goes on.
                      "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                      John Stuart Mill

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ChesCopPodz
                        With my dept, a 100% only means that you got all your rounds in the silohouette. The could be where the arms, head, or torso would be, as long as they're all somewhere on the white part of the target, you get a 100%.
                        Ours are based on where you hit the silohuette. Center head and chest are 5, and then the numbers drop from there. Not many people on my dept shoot 100.

                        The max distance used to be 25 yds, in the early 90's they extended it to 50 yds. That wiped out me qualifying with a 2"!
                        "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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                        • #13
                          Police quals mean that you can hit a stationary target the size of a 55 gallon barrel that isnt shooting back at you.

                          Nothing more.

                          Just about any IDPA course is tougher. I cant tell you how many times cops that shot a perfect qualification didnt do so great when it came to shooting from cover, shooting on the move, shooting from various positions and whatnot.

                          Shooting 100 percent is nothing but the start of a long journey to perfection....
                          "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

                          Norman Thomas

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Watchman
                            Police quals mean that you can hit a stationary target the size of a 55 gallon barrel that isnt shooting back at you.

                            Nothing more.

                            That's been my argument all along. It's the ability to keep your head, take your time and aim that will get you through a real shootout. No matter how good a shot you are, if you just start randomly throwing out lead, like many do, you aren't going to do much more than make a lot of noise.

                            Of the several police shootings I've investigated, ( and the two I was in) the cops that killed their opponent usually shot in the mid 80's their last qualification. But they kept their cool. The real life target, most of the time, is going to be in closer proximity than the paper target on the range.
                            "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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                            • #15
                              I think this one comes from lawyers. It happens. Lawyers try any angle they can to get what they want. It doens't matter about the common sense of the previous replys. I know some places have gone away from assigning a number score to quals. Its either pass or fail.

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