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  • Best duty round?

    Revolvers aside, which of these calibers do you think is best suited for a duty sidearm? I'm also intersted in which caliber is actually used the most (regardless if it's the "best" or not) - actual statistics and dead reckonin' welcome alike.

    EDIT: For simplicity's sake, just assume all the calibers are from the exact same manufacturer and are all hollow points.
    51
    9mm
    11.76%
    6
    .357 SIG
    3.92%
    2
    .40 S&W
    37.25%
    19
    10mm
    5.88%
    3
    .45 ACP
    41.18%
    21
    Last edited by 34thMP; 03-06-2004, 10:28 PM.

  • #2
    None em are death rays, so I suppose all of the calibers listed are as useful as the others. There is little if any difference in any of the calibers if using top JHP ammo like the Winchester Ranger. I'll take my Bushmaster or Rem. 870 over any stinkin pistola. But if I have to vote I'll take a 10mm w/ a 200 grain Winchester Ranger at about 1200 fps. ( round not in existance, but could be).
    Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

    Comment


    • #3
      The best that can be said for all the other rounds is that "they are almost as good as the .45"!
      "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
      John Stuart Mill

      Comment


      • #4
        According to the FBI stats,the 10mm outperforms the .45acp by a little margin. Personally,a round I'd like to see is a 200 grain Golden Sabre 10mm. Until that day comes,I'll stick with the 175 grain Winchester Silvertips. They have the exact same ballistics as the 175 grain .41 mag. Both good rounds.

        In todays handgun world,in most cases you either have a choice between speed or size. With the 10mm,you can have both.
        If you stare into the abyss long enough,sometimes it stares back.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 6233108
          None em are death rays, so I suppose all of the calibers listed are as useful as the others. There is little if any difference in any of the calibers if using top JHP ammo like the Winchester Ranger. I'll take my Bushmaster or Rem. 870 over any stinkin pistola. But if I have to vote I'll take a 10mm w/ a 200 grain Winchester Ranger at about 1200 fps. ( round not in existance, but could be).

          But www.proload.com does make a 180 Grain Gold Dot @ 1250 fps. in 10mm
          Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

          Comment


          • #6
            Heres a silly question: does anyone other than Glock even make a 10mm anymore?

            Are those that carry the 10mm concerned about over penetration?
            Im currently ignoring ghostsix, Khalid72 & wcucj

            Comment


            • #7
              chincilla

              If you're looking for a fine made 10mm check out Dan Wesson Firearms!

              Their Patriot Match Grade Models in 10mm and .45 ACP are nothing short of AWESOME!

              Their website is currently under construction but I'll list because it'll be back up shortly.

              Go to : http:www.danwessonfirearms.com

              I've ordered the Patriot Match grade for Competition/Carry. Bob Serva Vice President is one one THE few C.E.O.'s that will interact with prospective clients on and one-to-one basis! I find this a HUGE PLUS! Additionally, their firearms are comparable to Wilson Combat, Rock River, and any other "Custom Maker" without the exhorbitant price tag!

              They "PROOF" all their Patriot Models and guaratee the shot groupings and submit the "TEST FIRE TARGET." If the "Patriot" fails to perform Dan Wesson will replace or repair the firearm at no extra charge! I was considering the Wilson Combat .45 ACP and the Sig "Granite Series" but the Dan Wesson just blew me away! Bob Serva was generous enough to send a Patriot to the Range for me test fire to help me decide! Something the other Manufacturers won't usually do!

              The "Patriot," "Pointman" and "Razozback" come in your choice of caliber 10mm, .45 ACP and 9mm. They're worth checking out.

              Visit the 1911 Forum and check out the "Dan Wesson Thread." You'll find pictures of current Models until the Dan Wesson Site is up. If you do a "Search" on the Forum for 10mm in Dan Wesson or the other Manufacturers you'll see 10mm is alive and well!

              Good Luck! Let me know what you think of the "Patriot Series."
              Last edited by Invisiblecop; 03-09-2004, 02:13 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                The .45 caliber would be my choice. Unfortunately the 9mm won out in New York City. N.Y.P.D. and Correction uses the SPEER Gold Dot 9mm 124 grain +P JHP.

                After the Diallo fiasco N.Y.P.D. and the City powers who'd chosen the FMJ round switched to the JHP.

                Over penetration is a major consideration in selecting a round for large urban areas.

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                • #9
                  I prefer the .45ACP...the good old 230JHP "flying ashtray." However my dept issues .40SW which is a good round also.
                  If you knew you would fight for you life tomorrow, would you change the way you trained today?

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                  • #10
                    I have decided to change my answer.

                    THE BEST DUTY ROUND: The one that YOU can place directly on the point of aim, under any conditions, during the stress of a gunfight.

                    Obviously, the round will vary based upon your abilty/skill level, platform chosen, working conditions, etc. etc. But if you can't place the round where needed, you need to change the variables (get training to improve your skill level, etc.) until you can.

                    Short form: Shot Placement is more important than caliber, gun make, or any other consideration. Given a modern round, by one of the major companies, shot placement outweights all other considerations in the calibers listed.
                    "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                    John Stuart Mill

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I respecfully have to disagree to some extent about shot placement Sleuth. In the FBI shootout in Florida (perhaps Im mistaken about that) some years back, one of the agents shot one of the perps in the heart with a 9mm silvertip. It took another 15min for the guy to die, during which time he shot other FBI agents. So while shot placement is important, so is having a round big enough to get the job done.
                      Im currently ignoring ghostsix, Khalid72 & wcucj

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Since you mention that shooting, I used to teach a course at our academy on it, have numerous reports on it, and have talked to the Metro-Dade Sgt. who did the crime scene investigation.

                        Don't focus on the one round that hit (of a total IIRC of 12 hits on the outlaws). Focus on the 77 rounds fired by the FBI, of which around 65 did NOT hit. Had they had better shot placement with all, most, or even some of those rounds, there would have been a different outcome.

                        NOTE: My comments are not critical of the agents on the scene. I was not there. But the results do suggest some failure in their training.
                        "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                        John Stuart Mill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sleuth
                          Since you mention that shooting, I used to teach a course at our academy on it, have numerous reports on it, and have talked to the Metro-Dade Sgt. who did the crime scene investigation.

                          Don't focus on the one round that hit (of a total IIRC of 12 hits on the outlaws). Focus on the 77 rounds fired by the FBI, of which around 65 did NOT hit. Had they had better shot placement with all, most, or even some of those rounds, there would have been a different outcome.

                          NOTE: My comments are not critical of the agents on the scene. I was not there. But the results do suggest some failure in their training.
                          Good points on this and your previous post.
                          Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I recall a shootout that a officer/friend was in when I was a police officer in Utah. He was undercover and the suspect pulled a gun on him in a hotel room. For whatever reason the backup team did not respond right away. My friend felt that the suspect was going to kill him and the C.I. so while the suspect was looking for something to tie them up with, my friend pulled a Glock 19 from his front waistband and hit the suspect square in the heart with a 147gr 9mm hydrashock. The suspect emptied his revolver, ran around a corner toward a bathroom, and was found reloading his pistol by the entry team. My friend had shot in a diagonal line up the wall the suspect ducked around and had a good hit in the suspects hip also rupturing blood vessals. The suspect was taken into custody, an ambulance called, and he was transported to the hospital fully aware and awake. He died a short time later at the hospital. I do believe that shot placement is very important but I also believe that the round you use has to cause enough of a permenant wound channel that will ultimately stop the threat. Another shooting (there seemed like a lot of them out there) that occured while I worked there was involving a suspect with a knife. The dept. had gone to .40 S$W SXT/Black Talon (as it was know then). The officer fired two shots, within one inch, through the heart and one in the front of the hip (first shot). He said that the threat stopped within 2-3 seconds. While enroute to the hospital the suspect was pumping clear saline out of his wounds. Shot placement is important, what you are shooting is just as important. Practice, Practice, Practice. Train for real life.
                            Last edited by salty; 03-10-2004, 09:37 AM.
                            Train for real life, there is no second place here, never give up.

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