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  • Looking for a new duty weapon.

    I can't decide between to differnt guns. My first option is a Springfield XDm in .45 ACP.
    My other option is a Para 1911 in .45 ACP.

    Both are at a local gun shop who can get me a great price for either me. If it was you, what would you choose.

  • #2
    I love my XDm.

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    • #3
      Which ever you shoot better

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      • #4
        Honestly, how much of a gun guy are you? How often are you going to practice? How much training are you going to seek out? How important to you is ease of maintenance?

        1911's are great guns IF you are willing to put the time in. They require you to flick the thumb safety, which sounds simple, but under stress you need to have in 100% ingrained into you to deactivate it to fire and to reactivate it before reholstering. The grip safety means if you don't have a good grip, you may not be able to pull the trigger. It is more difficult to break down to clean. It is, quite simply, not a beginner's gun or a gun to throw in your holster and forget about. They compensate by being extremely accurate and having the best trigger in the game.

        Striker fired guns are simpler to learn, simpler to maintain, and are as accurate as you're likely to need to be on the streets.

        It is irrelevant which I would go with, because my experiences and training aren't the same as yours, nor or my hands the same size as yours, etc.
        I miss you, Dave.
        http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

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        • #5
          Get the H&K.

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          • #6
            I have zero interest in grip safeties, thumb safeties, or magazine safeties in a duty weapon.
            All Gave Some - Some Gave All

            {"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","data-tempid":"temp_14312_1475388990098_890","height":"65","title":"flower.gif","width":"72"}

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            • #7
              I think 1911's are great to shoot, but I think they are a little too finicky to rely on in a situation where you need it to save your life.

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              • #8
                I've carried 1911s, the XD, and the XDM on duty. Right now there's an FNX on my hip. Grip safeties are transparent, thumb safties do require that you are aware of them, and I've never had anything with a magazine disconnect. The one I shot the best was, hands down the 1911. It was also the slimmest. The grip angle on all three approximate the 1911. I got a Glock and qualified with it, but I came right back to the FN. Cocked & locked or DA/SA is your choice. 14 round (in 40) mag capacity ain't bad either. Every FNX and FNS comes with night sights and three mags.

                I found the XDM to not be worth the money over the standard XD. Still a nice gun, though. If you are a shooter of 1911s you'll want to keep an extra recoil spring around. That is all my 1911s ever needed. People say 1911s are finnicky. That's the customized ones, in my opinion. Of the three (two Colts and a Kimber) I have carried all were out of the box stock, and never had a problem. There are many 1911s in my agency.

                Whatever you get, train with it until it is second nature.
                Last edited by KenW.; 01-06-2015, 10:10 AM.
                I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

                Douglas MacArthur

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                • #9
                  I have an issue with the XD lines, and that is the fact that the slide can't be racked unless the grip safety is depressed. It really limits your options in any worse case scenario where you can't manipulate the slide as you normally would. While a decent pistol in terms of reliability and accuracy, the XD ranks at the bottom of duty/carry grade pistols I would choose for this reason.

                  I love 1911s, however, as Cruiser Class said, they're a lot of work. John Browning was a genius, but most of his designs were proof of concept and, because they worked, were never really simplified. It was up to other designers to take his work and make it more streamlined and user friendly. My 1st pistol was a 1911; I love it, it's a tack driver, and I can disassemble it blindfolded, but it's still a bit of a PITA. Plus, they're not as easy or cheap for a user to fix if something goes wrong. There's a department around where I live that issues the 1911 as their service pistol and from what most of the officers have said, they're sick of them; they could get a Glock or S&W M&P for half the price and half the maintenance.

                  If you can expand beyond those two, I'd get a Smith & Wesson M&P 45 and have a smith install the Apex DCAEK and trigger, if your department will allow that kind of modification.
                  "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
                  -Chris Rock

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KenW. View Post
                    Grip safeties are transparent
                    ...when they work. Depending on your hand size and grip technique, you may not always deactivate it on a hasty draw. I've seen it happen at IDPA and in real life for people shooting a 1911. This is nothing that can't be overcome with training and ingraining muscle memory, but it is a concern for those who aren't going to put in the time or who just don't feel comfortable with their hand size and the grip.

                    I love the 1911. It was my carry gun for many years, however I stand by it not being a casual user's weapon when under stress.
                    I miss you, Dave.
                    http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

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                    • #11
                      I stand by it not being a casual user's weapon when under stress
                      Hence the last line in my earlier post. I have never seen a grip safety fail.
                      I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

                      Douglas MacArthur

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                      • #12
                        I'd agree on the 1911 feedback in this thread. I was a "gun guy" (Casual IPSC/IDPA shooter) for 20 years before I was aux. LEO (only 7 months ago FWIW) and I owned/loved a Kimber 1911 (among other various handguns). I also trained more than the average LEO as a civilian although only when I cared about it as it was purely a hobby. When making the "switch" to LEO and gaining the proverbial "target on my back" I realized that between a level 3 holster and two manual safeties (albeit the grip safety is semi-automatic) there were just too many motions involved in deploying a 1911 for me to handle without very extensive and recurring training.

                        That's not even getting into the mag capacity issue vs. a double stack and having to be that much more proficient with your reloads.

                        After much deliberation I opted to sell all of my handguns (except for a Ruger .22) and standardize on 2 glocks (27 + 35 in my case). Every minute I spend training is that much more valuable with a standardized pistol for primary duty (35), backup duty (27), and every day carry (27) since there's minimal "overhead" dealing with unnecessary variables. These days I'd rather be a master of "one gun" then dabble in a variety of pistols like I used to (Note: I said what "I'd rather be..." not what I actually am.). I used to have a mix of 1911 SA, DAO, SA/DA, striker, etc. Some had manual safeties, some had magazine safeties, etc. I was certainly a master of none. With the pair o' glocks the triggers are the same, the ammo is the same, the grips are pretty much the same, they point the same, their sights are the same (Trijicon), the 35 magazine can be inserted into the 27, etc. The two Glocks together cost less than I was able to sell my 10 year old used Kimber 1911 for too.

                        Also, what does your partner (if you have one) or others on your shift carry? I'd definitely go for the same caliber but I'd strongly consider going for a weapon that accepts the same magazines as well. If you get into a bad situation and can utilize each other's spares that's potentially very useful.

                        All that said I'd give stronger weight to the caliber and magazine (relative to the rest of your dept) and what you'd be willing to carry off duty vs. any minor ergonomic, function, or appearance likes/gripes. If they all are toting 1911s then it may be worth the extra training investment to be on the same platform. If they're on .45 XDs, Glocks or S&W M&P then I think it's a no-brainer. IMHO get the same thing and learn to love it.

                        Sorry I used the parenthesis so liberally.
                        Last edited by T-Bone 111; 01-06-2015, 09:19 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Unless you're willing to put in a LOT of time on the 1911 I wouldn't choose that. I used to shoot competitively, over 1000 rounds of shooting per month, and I don't carry a 1911 on duty.

                          Frankly, if I was just buying a gun for duty without having the collection and experience I have, I'd buy a Glock 22/27 or 17/26 combo and call it good. Mind, that's not what I would buy now (I carry a P226 9mm, the same gun I competed with for over a decade) but if I were a shooter of more average experience and training that's what I'd buy and carry. The two together probably cost less that the ones you're looking at and any Glock is going to be a better shooter than the person who carries it 99% of the time.
                          Last edited by tanksoldier; 01-07-2015, 12:22 AM.
                          "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

                          "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

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                          • #14
                            Of those two, I would recommend the XDM. I would recommend a G21, G41, HK45, USP 45, P220, P227, SR45, FNX45 or CZ97BD over the Para 1911. If you do choose to go with an inexpensive 1911, I'd recommend a Ruger SR1911 over the Para.

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                            • #15
                              It still blows my mind that any officer would want a gun with a grip safety as a duty weapon. Set aside competitive shooting and speed issues. Let's focus on a fight at bad breath distance that escalates to lethal force -- maybe a gun grab, maybe a choke, maybe fists/feet to the face. I think it's pretty damn ignorant to assume one's grip won't be an issue in such a dynamic and stressful circumstance, especially if your hand is injured, sweaty or covered in blood. For those who've never experienced it, blood makes things pretty slippery.

                              The issue GangGreen712 brought up regarding the grip safety and the slide in the XD line only reinforces my position. Absolute no-go for me as a duty gun.

                              Whatever floats your boat I guess. Just remember it's not all about punching holes in paper on a square range on a sunny day.
                              Last edited by Resq14; 01-08-2015, 01:35 AM.
                              All Gave Some - Some Gave All

                              {"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","data-tempid":"temp_14312_1475388990098_890","height":"65","title":"flower.gif","width":"72"}

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