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  • .223 Ammo

    I'm always looking for a bargain when it comes to ammo. Several questions come to mind:

    Target Shooting/Plinking
    Is the Russian "Wolf" brand any good?

    How about Sellier&Bellot?

    How about the other Russian brand- "Silver Bear"?

    Tactical Ammo

    What's a good round?
    "All the people like us are we,
    And everyone else is They"

  • #2
    I don't have any experience with the Wolf .223 rifle ammo,but from what I've seen the pistol ammo sucks. The Wolf 7.62x39 runs fine in my AK varients,but we all know that the tolerances are not near as tight as a US made weapon.
    I bought a 1660 round case of Chinasports (Norinco) .223 55 gr FMJ several years ago for my AR-15 and had no problems with it. The only drawback was the powder didn't burn as clean as US ammo. I think it was designed to shoot in the full auto weapons cause it burned hotter than a "standard" surplus or plinking load. Other than having to take a little extra time to get the unburned powder out,no real complaints. It was as accurate as could be expected.

    Sellier&Belloit has some good pistol ammo and good 12ga rounds,but I've never fired their rifle ammo.

    As far as a tactical load,Hornady's TAP round is great. Unfortunately,the prices are sky high. Even for a LE purchase.

    Anybody else have a better (i.e. cheaper) round in mind for CQB work than the TAP? I'm looking for something to fill that gap myself.
    Last edited by J.DIXON; 09-13-2003, 12:54 PM.
    If you stare into the abyss long enough,sometimes it stares back.

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    • #3
      My Bushy M4gery LOVES Remington's 55 grain PSP Core-Lokt, shooting groups as tight as ANY Match ammo I've ever shot....or seen shot from an AR. It has a good track record according to Evan Marshall, as well.
      "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
      -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

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      • #4
        I've been advised to stay away from Wolf if you're using it in an autoloader. It seems that part of the coating on the brass will begin to melt off when being used in, say, an AR-15, and will then begin to jam up your bolt. Bad news, since it can be hard to clean. I've never had this happen, but have been told by several people with a lot more experience uding the AR than me.
        On the plus side, I was told that Wolf is great stuff for plinking, especially if you're using a bolt-action gun (Rem 700 comes to mind). The ammo doesn't get as hot, and won't start to jam up your action.

        I've never used S & B for any rifle ronds, but their handgun stuff isn't bad. Never had problems with it. I can't speak to the other stuff, never heard of it.
        I'd just like to thank all the stupid people out there...You helped pay for my kids' Christmas.

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        • #5
          Wolf Ammo, Etc.

          I have an AR from DPMS and I bought some Made in the USA Winchester 55 gr. and upon firing it wouldn't completely cycle the bolt, the bolt would slam back shut with the empty casing still inside. After about five or six episodes of this, a friend of mine gave me some UMC and I had no further problems. I emailed DPMS about it and the guy that replied told me that DPMS states in their literature that people shouldn't use foreign made ammo (Israel makes ammo for Winchester, the lot #'s on the lower right corner start with a "Q".) I replied back and told him that I followed DPMS recommendations and bought USA made Winchester, I reiterated that I figured it was made in the USA as the box had "Made in USA" stamped on it in seven different places, the guy never replied back. Being a new rifle, I'll wait until I've run a couple hundred rounds through it and try the rest of the Winchester again.
          Although DPMS doesn't recommend Wolf, I've read posts at other sites by people who have used Wolf .223 and the majority of them said they had no problem with the Wolf .223 The two biggest issues I read about were (1) it's dirtier and (2) some people complained about the burnt powder odor. (stinky)
          One guy did mention a casing that failed to extract and after he pushed it out with a cleaning rod, there was a small sticky spot in the chamber, that is the only thing I've heard firsthand regarding the laquer problem. Personally, I have not tried Wolf .223 as of yet.
          I have used Wolf .40 in my Glock for target but I've experienced a number of misfires where the round didn't go to battery correctly and the pin hit the primer off-center and didn't fire. I read about other people having the same problem.
          http://www.wintersoldier.com
          THIS AMERICAN DOESN'T NEED TO PASS A "GLOBAL TEST" TO PROTECT HIS FREEDOM!

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          • #6
            1. Boxes marked "Made in USA" contain ammo made here.
            2. The "Q" in Winchester lot numbers used to mean made for a Government order. We used to issue the "Q4070", a 110g JHP that made 1,000 FPS in a 2" Chief's Special.
            3. There are reports of Wolf 223 leaving a residue in the chamber, usually in full auto weapons. Most folks don't shoot a semi fast enought to melt the coating.
            4. There are also reports of the coating on Silver Bear flaking off into the actions of guns.

            Of course, you can always take up handloading.

            For CQB, look at some of the 40 grain varmit ammo. I have some Federal 40 g "Blitz" that has had good reports. Some agencies are still reporting good results with 55 Grain G.I. Ball. Avoid the M855 (or any other) Green Tip AP ammo. It produces small, straight, holes in suspects, walls, innocent bystanders - all with one shot.
            "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
            John Stuart Mill

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            • #7
              Another alternative to a good tactical load, with TAP being expensive, is Federal Tactical .223, 55 grain tactical load. Our SWAT team uses this with great results, and patrol has since adopted it. Its marked "Law Enforcement ammunition" with a stock # LE223T1.

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              • #8
                Wolf should not be shot in US guns bc it has steel cases. Those cases are hard on the extractors and can cause premature failure. Additionally, they are coated in a lacquer like substance to prevent corrosion and it has a habit of melting off onto the chamber and causing malfunctions. If left in the chamber for a long time it will rust in the chamber...bad. Go with US ammo for US guns. Personally I like the M-855 round. Despite alleged lethality issues, it is made for the M-16 series of weapons and it will go bang and function the weapon reliably.
                Live your Tactics, Hope is NOT a method!

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