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  • Rifle Policy

    Our agency has recently bought several M-14's and MP5's. I am looking for a policy in reference to carrying the rifles on patrol. We are planning on issuing them out only to certain people who will be responsible for them but I do not know what other topics need to be covered. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    Dont think of it as losing, think of it as being beat by a girl!

  • #2
    First, you've got a LOT of work ahead of you BEFORE you issue these weapons.

    You've got to TRAIN prospective officers on the use and limitations of each weapon. An M14, firing the 7.62NATO round has EXTREME over-penetration possibilities which will have to be addressed with regards to ammo, WHEN to deploy, range considerations, etc.

    The MP5, being SELECT-FIRE also has its share of training obstacles to overcome, including range limitations, ammo, WHEN to use FULL-AUTO, etc.

    Your department needs to examine HOW each weapon CAN be used BEST, and WHEN to do so. You need to RESEARCH ammunition, optics, methods of securing within the vehicles, etc, etc, etc.

    THEN.....you have to have the selected officers spend LOTS of time on the range becoming INTIMATELY familiar with their weapons. They'll learn ITS limitations...as well as THEIR OWN.

    Just my $0.02.
    "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
    -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

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    • #3
      First off get someone trained as an instructor with both of these weapons, or send the officers selected to carry these weapons to a state certified instructor. Then get an officer trained to be an armorer for these weapons. Then find a policy that coincides with your use of deadly force policy and incorporate the rifles or subguns into it. The Hornady TAP 7.62 offering will fragment like a 5.56 M193 round. I personally believe select fire weapons are for the highly trained and dedicated officers who train constantly. I do not like either of the listed weapons (M-14 or MP5) for a patrol unit. I regard very highly the rifles my dept. issues- Bushmaster XM-15ES, even our problem shooters can make good hits out to 85 yards using iron sights. We have just received some surplus M-16's from uncle sam and they are select fire and will available to only the highly trained and highly disciplined officers trained in and familiar with select fire weapons and their limited law enforcement applications. If you want a copy of our policy PM me and I'll get it to you.
      Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

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      • #4
        Rifle Policy

        I appreciate it shooter1201. I know the limitations of the weapons and we already have the ammo. I just need a model policy before I issue the weapons out and train the selected persons on them. Otherwise you know how cops are, they will be shooting snakes and such with them. 6233108, check your PM when you get the chance.
        Last edited by Rita; 07-12-2003, 08:57 AM.
        Dont think of it as losing, think of it as being beat by a girl!

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        • #5
          The National Tactical Officers Association (www.ntoa.org) has an information package on the patrol rifle that we used in designing our program. It's available on disc or paper for a reasonable price. You do have to be a member or find one willing to order it for you.

          Unfortunately, our program is still a work in progress, so I don't have a policy to send you. Be safe.
          John from Maryland

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          • #6
            Check with the NRA Law Enforcement Activities Division (LEAD) for sample policies, as well as the Firearms Training Branch at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, GA.
            "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
            John Stuart Mill

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            • #7
              I have always questioned the need for a seperate rifle policy. The rifle is a use of force weapon which is either authorized or not by your department. The rifle should or can be used in the same capacity(deadly force) as your handgun or shotgun.
              Intersting combination of guns. My opinion, the MP-5 does not fall under the same definition as rifle and should not be treated as such. The MP-5 is a sub-gun. For issue to patrol I agree with the majority of opinions here. That being I dont care for the choices. You may want to re-evalute the selection.

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              • #8
                Rita,
                Withthe info you provided I puttogether a policy, It only require you to put in the ammunition specifications, and where they are carried, in the trunk or in car racks.
                sent via e-mail
                Boo! Scared ya did'nt I

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                • #9
                  Traffic Dog, your point about not classifying rifles differently from other firearms is well taken. We feel some need to provide examples of when shtguns and rifles should or should not be deployed in policy. Needless to say, this could come back to bite us on the cuff case when a justified use of a shoulder weapon was technically frowned upon.

                  That said, a rifle policy might properly include specifications of the weapon; authorized and prohibited accessories; training requirements; and security requirements.

                  I also find the combination of M-14's and MP-5's somewhat unusual. I suspect there's a financial reason behind it. Stay safe.
                  John from Maryland

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                  • #10
                    My department issues all our patrol deputies with Mini-14 (I turned mine in and use my Bushmaster XM-15) and issue subguns to are SERT Team (SWAT). Any gun capable of full auto fire has to be in a lock box bolted to the patrol car.
                    Never argue with idiots... they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience

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                    • #11
                      p-90

                      Has anyone in the United States ever been issued a FN p-90?

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                      • #12
                        Yes , and you don't want one.
                        Boo! Scared ya did'nt I

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                        • #13
                          P-90

                          I have some experience with the p-90. It is a phenomenal weapon, but it is a very radical departure from "Traditional" sub guns. It has very few moving parts and it feeds from a horizontal 50 round mag. It WILL go through soft armor like a hot knife through butter and their rounds perform like the M855 5.56 military rounds in that they tend to yaw and tumble and or break up when they hit something. The penetration on drywall is less than a 9mm ball round. Little Rock AR SWAT uses them heavily and I know the Secret Service has a bunch in use for protection. The only problem is the ammo which is very $$$. I spoke with the guys at FN a few weeks ago and it looks like Federal may start producing the rounds here in the US so the price will go down. If you end up getting one, be sure to get the one with the rail that will accept all types of optics instead of the permanently mounted factory optic. The Suppressor is also great in dealing with the muzzle blast.
                          Live your Tactics, Hope is NOT a method!

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for all of the help guys. We got the MP5's because a certain team wanted them, I am not sure about the M-14's, I just have to work with what I am given. I am sure you all are familier with that.
                            Dont think of it as losing, think of it as being beat by a girl!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rita
                              Thanks for all of the help guys. We got the MP5's because a certain team wanted them, I am not sure about the M-14's, I just have to work with what I am given. I am sure you all are familier with that.
                              The M14 is an excellent rifle, just not the best suited for patrol use. But, if thats what you got, thats what you got!

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