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  • leosa question

    I've asked around and gotten a few different answers. As active leo what amount of id are you required to have on you when carrying concealed? Thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by mkbaldree View Post
    I've asked around and gotten a few different answers. As active leo what amount of id are you required to have on you when carrying concealed? Thanks
    Simply put: photographic identification issued by your department. While some states have taken to trying to “standardize” LE identification, there is no requirement under 18 USC 926B or 18 USC 926C.

    There is no requirement under “LEOSA” that the identification cite anything by way of authorities or otherwise. Would an agency (or their officers for that matter) be in a better position if the identification issued clearly stated the position occupied and authorities held as specified as required under the provisions of 18 USC 926B (or those held when separated for 18 USC 926C; you bet, but there is no such requirement.

    Directly from the relevant section of the law:

    (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.
    Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926B
    Originally posted by SSD
    It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603
    And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Lawdawg45
      As a retired Officer, I've wondered the same thing. I have my DHS identification card and retirement badge, but the ID is not a picture ID. I also have my state's lifetime LTCH permit, but states like Ohio, Illinois, etc don't recognize it.

      LD
      Strange, all the retired 1811's in my office (DHS/ICE) have retired Creds with pictures. They also have a LEOSA card, a nice touch but not required.
      Hey Kidd, I've got more time On Meal than you have "On the Job"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lawdawg45
        As a retired Officer, I've wondered the same thing. I have my DHS identification card and retirement badge, but the ID is not a picture ID. I also have my state's lifetime LTCH permit, but states like Ohio, Illinois, etc don't recognize it.

        LD
        You should get the DHS retired ID card which is produced specifically for LEOSA purposes.

        Also do not forget that you need to carry some proof of qualification within the past year in order to meet the requirements of LEOSA.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by exfed2002 View Post
          You should get the DHS retired ID card which is produced specifically for LEOSA purposes.

          Also do not forget that you need to carry some proof of qualification within the past year in order to meet the requirements of LEOSA.
          ExFed, the LEOSA card many Fed agency's are giving out is a nice touch, but your retired Creds with photo is all one needs. It's also what I would want to see if a question arises. LEOSA is confusing enough without adding more nonsense ID's into the mix.
          Hey Kidd, I've got more time On Meal than you have "On the Job"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 1911user View Post
            ExFed, the LEOSA card many Fed agency's are giving out is a nice touch, but your retired Creds with photo is all one needs. It's also what I would want to see if a question arises. LEOSA is confusing enough without adding more nonsense ID's into the mix.
            Now it is, but in the beginning DHS did not allow the use of pinned creds for LEOSA; that came out in the newest management directive. The DHS retired ID is specifically developed for LEOSA and has all the proper buzzwords.

            In any case do you really want to see creds with a 25 year old picture on them? Because that is what a lot of folks who retired pre-DHS have.

            With the DHS card I can carry everything I need around my neck on a chain, which spares my back the pain of carrying my old hamhock creds.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by exfed2002 View Post
              Now it is, but in the beginning DHS did not allow the use of pinned creds for LEOSA; that came out in the newest management directive. The DHS retired ID is specifically developed for LEOSA and has all the proper buzzwords.

              In any case do you really want to see creds with a 25 year old picture on them? Because that is what a lot of folks who retired pre-DHS have.

              With the DHS card I can carry everything I need around my neck on a chain, which spares my back the pain of carrying my old hamhock creds.
              Will have to strongly disagree here. DHS does not trump the federal statue by saying who can or cannot carry under LEOSA. If you meet the requiement as defined in the statue that's it. If they failed to give a retiree a photo ID when they have in the past there would be a problem. They cannot subjugate LEOSA. The AG and DOJ would have a field day with them. Their rush to get those additional cards out is a direct response to the AG to get in line. All they needed to do was clarify LEOSA to the troops, but...and you know better than I...the Feds go overboard, hence those cards.

              You meet the requirements with the Creds (original) they gave you plus your qualification, period.
              Hey Kidd, I've got more time On Meal than you have "On the Job"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 1911user View Post
                Will have to strongly disagree here. DHS does not trump the federal statue by saying who can or cannot carry under LEOSA. If you meet the requiement as defined in the statue that's it. If they failed to give a retiree a photo ID when they have in the past there would be a problem. They cannot subjugate LEOSA. The AG and DOJ would have a field day with them. Their rush to get those additional cards out is a direct response to the AG to get in line. All they needed to do was clarify LEOSA to the troops, but...and you know better than I...the Feds go overboard, hence those cards.

                You meet the requirements with the Creds (original) they gave you plus your qualification, period.
                Where did I say that????

                Folks wanted a smaller retired ID and Myers issued an MD that said you couldn't use retired creds. Folks used them anyway, because the cards were in planning and not issued until 2008.

                There were a few retired creds and retired shields issued towards the end of 2001, but only a couple of former HQ friends of mine got them, and they never went any further. The best you could hope for then was to get your shield with a retired bar and a set of pinned creds mounted on a plaque.

                The change came when the smaller cards came out offering the option to use the cards or the creds, the retirees choice.

                Most of my friends and I prefer the card to the hamhock cred case.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wow, I came upon this thread at a perfect time. Maybe someone has an answer for me. I have a buddy (fellow officer) that will go out on disability from an on the job injury. What are the chances of him getting any kind of creds from CBP? I have been trying to help him along this long process. Thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ford123 View Post
                    Wow, I came upon this thread at a perfect time. Maybe someone has an answer for me. I have a buddy (fellow officer) that will go out on disability from an on the job injury. What are the chances of him getting any kind of creds from CBP? I have been trying to help him along this long process. Thanks.
                    He's going to have to deal with the people he works for.

                    LEOSA has been loosened up to allow for disability retirees to qulify with less time on.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lawdawg45
                      As a retired Officer, I've wondered the same thing. I have my DHS identification card and retirement badge, but the ID is not a picture ID. I also have my state's lifetime LTCH permit, but states like Ohio, Illinois, etc don't recognize it.

                      LD
                      You can get an AZ non resident CCW that will cover you in OH, FL non resident too but that costs more I think. I really envy you guys on the CCW laws in Indiana.
                      Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lawdawg45
                        I'm clear on that. Utah and a few others have the non-resident permit. We are a shall issue state, and either open or concealed carry is OK. The only other state more gun friendly would be Alaska.

                        LD
                        But the DOWNSIDE as I hear it is that the state itself has no central issuing authority about the CCW ?? So in many cases there is nobody at the state level to work out a reciprocity agreement with ?? I work in your state, and we shop there most weekends, it is only 15 miles or so to the state line for me.

                        Utah would be a "go" because you already have your home state CCW, but folks in a "may issue" state like NY cannot get the Utah if they do not have the NY one for example. Utah may accept your LE training with you just having to pay the fee ??

                        Bill
                        Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lawdawg45
                          I think you've been misinformed or I'm misunderstanding your question. In Indiana the application can be made through any local department, but It's the State Police that issue the license.

                          LD
                          It is hard to get at what the issue is really, more or less as I understand it there is nobody who is tasked with SEEKING reciprocity agreements, in Ohio the law REQUIRES our Attorney General to SEEK reciprocity agreements with othes states. The requirements of this section would preclude reciprocity with IN probably due to the IN license being easier to get (less or no training). BUT then we do have reciprocity with WA and they do not require any training as far as I can tell ??

                          As it was explained to me IN has nobody appointed to the task of agreeing to reciprocity ? Some states like IN may accept any valid license issued by another state, but does IN have any formal negotiated reciprocity agreement with any other state ??

                          Also kind of weird is how IN seems to require this ?? My Ohio license is for a concealed handgun, so I could not carry openly if what I quoted was true ??

                          When carrying within the state of Indiana on an out of state permit, the permittee must carry in accordance with the terms of the permit; for instance, if the permit says “concealed handgun permit,” then it must be concealed. If it simply says license to carry handgun, it can then be carried either openly or concealed.
                          This is the part of Ohio revised code which requires the Ohio AG to seek and enter into reciprocity agreements.
                          From Ohio Revised Code
                          109.69 Reciprocity agreement.
                          (A)(1) The attorney general shall negotiate and enter into a reciprocity agreement with any other license-issuing state under which a license to carry a concealed handgun that is issued by the other state is recognized in this state if the attorney general determines that both of the following apply:

                          (a) The eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for that license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a license to carry a concealed handgun issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

                          (b) That license-issuing state recognizes a license to carry a concealed handgun issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

                          (2) A reciprocity agreement entered into under division (A)(1) of this section also may provide for the recognition in this state of a license to carry a concealed handgun issued on a temporary or emergency basis by the other license-issuing state, if the eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for the temporary or emergency license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code and if that license-issuing state recognizes a temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued under section 2923.1213 of the Revised Code.

                          (3) The attorney general shall not negotiate any agreement with any other license-issuing state under which a license to carry a concealed handgun that is issued by the other state is recognized in this state other than as provided in divisions (A)(1) and (2) of this section.

                          (B) As used in this section:

                          (1) “Handgun” has the same meaning as in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code.

                          (2) “License-issuing state” means a state other than this state that, pursuant to law, provides for the issuance of a license to carry a concealed handgun.

                          Effective Date: 04-08-2004

                          Last edited by willbird; 04-01-2012, 09:23 AM.
                          Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by willbird View Post
                            My Ohio license is for a concealed handgun, so I could not carry openly if what I quoted was true ??
                            My understanding is that you must abide by the terms of YOUR permit. However I need to research that again. It's been awhile since I have had to get into the finer details of reciprocity. Usually I just verify that the out of state permit is still valid (if possible) and send them on their merry way. Since Indiana allows open carry on our Personal Protection Permits if you have a valid permit, I don't really care how you are carrying unless you are on private property and THEY care.
                            "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
                            8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
                              My understanding is that you must abide by the terms of YOUR permit. However I need to research that again. It's been awhile since I have had to get into the finer details of reciprocity. Usually I just verify that the out of state permit is still valid (if possible) and send them on their merry way. Since Indiana allows open carry on our Personal Protection Permits if you have a valid permit, I don't really care how you are carrying unless you are on private property and THEY care.
                              And to be clear I have no real desire to OC, but legal OC can come into play with printing or inadvertent exposure of the gun.

                              I work in Butler, IN and I have considered applying for an IN CCW just as a belt and suspenders type of deal since we do most of our shopping over there, and I am there every day for work. Many people carry several CCW to cover various reciprocity, and it would get confusing if you had to decide whether to follow IN law or the law for 3 different out of state CCW :-). I had always understood that you followed the law where you were standing....with other states having confusing issues like having to qualify with a handgun to carry it, or qualify with that TYPE (semi or revolver) it could get pretty darn confusing real quickly if that carried over into reciprocity.
                              Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                              Comment

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