Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

FN Five-seveN pistol use

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    What about the ctg would allow them to patent it ?? It is very similar to cartridges in general use since the 1930's.

    1989 FN's Jean-Paul Denis and Marc Neuforge file a US patent application for the projectile design used in the 5.7x28mm SS90 cartridge
    Event that narrow patent (on the ss90 projectile) expired in 2009

    How long does patent protection last?

    For applications filed on or after June 8, 1995, utility and plant patents are granted for a term which begins with the date of the grant and usually ends 20 years from the date you first applied for the patent subject to the payment of appropriate maintenance fees. Design patents last 14 years from the date you are granted the patent. No maintenance fees are required for design patents
    I would say very low demand, coupled with ammo avail already at a fairly low price explains why Rem, WW, and Federal have not released 5.7 ammo.
    Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by willbird View Post
      What about the ctg would allow them to patent it ?? It is very similar to cartridges in general use since the 1930's.
      Ask Alexander Arms how they patented/trademarked the 6.5 Grendel.

      I don't know the process. I do know that it is frequently done. Once a company owns the rights, they get to license it to whomever they choose. Companies have gotten around the "Grendel" issue by slightly changing the dimensions of the cartridge print, then re-naming it. I.E. .264 LBC, 6.5 Sporter, etc.

      I don't believe the 5.7 is popular enough to warrant this work.
      "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
      8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by willbird View Post
        FN has no power to allow or deny anybody to load the cartridge. They may have a copyrite or trademark on calling it something or other, but people other then FN market 5.7 ammo.
        Find me a company that makes their own from the ground up and you will get the gold star of the day award. There are others out there that make it (e.g. Elite Ammunition) but they must first buy all the shell casings from FN. That's why it is still even more expensive than the factory ammo.
        "When they kick out your front door, how you gonna come? With your hands on your head, or on the trigger of your gun. When the law break in, how you gonna go? Shot down on the pavement, or waiting in death row." - President Barack Obama

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by RSGSRT View Post
          Since we're talking about calibers that lack stopping power can any of you answer why the Beretta M9 (a 9mm) is issued to our troops? They need the best that's out there just as much as an officer working the streets in the U.S. so why didn't they stick with the 1911 or at least downsize to a .40?
          Caveat: Non-military; just repeating what I was told.

          The way it was explained to me, and it may have been coming from someone's nether regions, is that it is more valuable on the battlefield to wound someone with a small caliber than kill them with a large one. That way, you take them out of the fight as well as 1-2 other guys that now have to pull the wounded man to safety. Makes sense, but very possibly BS.
          If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

          ---Jack Handey

          Comment


          • #35
            US SS presidental detal is now carrying them or atleast transitioning to them from the sig. They have been carrying the P90 for some time now. keep mind their firearms are to be used in a different capasity then a street cop.

            Comment


            • #36
              My decidedly non-expert take on the FN Five-seveN is this: I'm sure they are a well made firearm as FN has a very solid reputation. The round it fires seems as though it would be very adept at punching a hole through something, with the emphasis being on "through," as in all-the-way through. If a person wanted to purchase one for personal use, they should knock themselves out by all means.
              Here are the reasons why I feel it wouldn't make that great of a duty weapon:
              The ballistic qualities of the round do not seem as though they would be as beneficial to the average patrol officer as opposed to something like the .45 ACP or even some of the recent innovations in 9mm rounds.
              The weapon platform itself is cost prohibitive. Considering the weapon costs nearly double what a Glock would cost a department, I have a hard time seeing how a department could justify the purchase of the Five-seveN over something like the Glock 21SF or S&W M&P .45. In these days of ever increasing budget scrutiny, fiscal prudence is not a luxury, it's a necessity. For example, our recruit classes usually have 45-50 people in them. At a $500 premium over the Glock 21, you're talking about $22,500 for 45 weapons. Ouch.
              The ammo seems to be more expensive as well. See the previous paragraph for why this is a bad thing as far as the weapon being chosen as a duty weapon.

              At the end of they day, if you (the OP) want to purchase one, get after it. You will have a finely made weapon that fires an interesting (albeit expensive) round with unique ballistic properties (from a pistol standpoint).

              As for me personally, I would not own one. The biggest problem with it for me? I think the thing if fugly. It is just an ugly gun in my opinion. I know looks shouldn't be that important, but if I can have a firearm that does everything I need it to do AND at least looks decent, then that's what I want.
              Anything worth shooting is worth shooting 3 or 4 times.

              M-11

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Chazz View Post
                Find me a company that makes their own from the ground up and you will get the gold star of the day award. There are others out there that make it (e.g. Elite Ammunition) but they must first buy all the shell casings from FN. That's why it is still even more expensive than the factory ammo.
                OK, so the demand is so low that it does not warrant production of a cartridge case by a third party, maybe never will. Does this mean that because nobody for example makes their own small block chevy engine block (maybe a few do now but not many % wise were ever made) but just rebuilds gm units instead that GM had a patent on the small block chevy for 57 years that prevented anybody else from making them ?? NO :-).

                Supposedly only TWO companies in the USE make and prime 22lr cases in any appreciable qty, they do them for all the mfg of 22 ammo out there, does that mean they have a patent on the ctg and only they can make them ?? Um NO :-).

                Bill
                Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                Comment


                • #38
                  As to the M9, I had a friend on the Joint Selection Committee. As far as fit/function/reliability, the SIG and Barretta were about equal. However, Switerland is not a NATO member, and NATO has a policy called "countertrade", to keep the balance of spending about equal. The Italians had just bought a bunch of U.S. radios, so the trade was out of balance.
                  Also, we wanted a base in Sardinia. So the Barretta was chosen on political rather than any other criteria.

                  At the time, pistols were only issued to a limited number of troops - officers, weapons crews, etc. Not at all on the scale we see today.
                  "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                  John Stuart Mill

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by willbird View Post
                    OK, so the demand is so low that it does not warrant production of a cartridge case by a third party, maybe never will. Does this mean that because nobody for example makes their own small block chevy engine block (maybe a few do now but not many % wise were ever made) but just rebuilds gm units instead that GM had a patent on the small block chevy for 57 years that prevented anybody else from making them ?? NO :-).

                    Supposedly only TWO companies in the USE make and prime 22lr cases in any appreciable qty, they do them for all the mfg of 22 ammo out there, does that mean they have a patent on the ctg and only they can make them ?? Um NO :-).

                    Bill
                    FN does have the rights to the cartridge and other have made it, such as Fiocchi. However Fiocchi received a contract from FN to have the permission to make the round and it was still packaged as FN ammo. As new rounds have been developed in the past (.40 Smith & Wesson, .308 Winchester, .357 SIG to name a few) they are not throwing their name behind it for PR. Those manufactures spent the R&D dollars to make the round and then for a period of time, not sure the exact limit, others must obtain permission and pay a gratuity to manufacture it. The same is true for the music and car industry (e.i. being able to build Shelby Cobra kit cars without having to obtain permission from Shelby).

                    Glad to see others are making the conclusion that 5.7 x 28mm has a unique place, but not necessarily for the everyday patrol use of a LEO.
                    "When they kick out your front door, how you gonna come? With your hands on your head, or on the trigger of your gun. When the law break in, how you gonna go? Shot down on the pavement, or waiting in death row." - President Barack Obama

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      There are several types of 5.7 ammo. The original PDW ammo is the AP, sold only to LE agencies in the U.S. Later they came out with the ball/expanding types, which have about the same ballistics as the .22 WRM - look it up. The .22 WRM is only considered usefull for small game in most states. I don't think it is legal to hunt deer withit in most areas.

                      USSS operates under different rules around "The Man". Street cops do not have the same rules.

                      As for me, I will not trust my life to anything smaller than .38/9mm, with a general preference for .45. Your results may vary.
                      But you could get the same effects with the much cheaper .22 WRM pistol that is on the market. Even the ammo is much, much cheaper than 5.7 ammo in any flavor.
                      "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                      John Stuart Mill

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Well just to let you know it will go through any vest you carry without plates even level 3A. Thats a pretty good reason to carry it.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          If you get attacked by tha Jaffa you'll wish you had a P-90.

                          Other than Hollywood, I don't think I'd have a use for the round. I already have a 22 mag.
                          I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

                          Douglas MacArthur

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            " The Jaffa..." ?

                            Who they be??
                            "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                            John Stuart Mill

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              OK so you didn't watch enough Stargate SG-1..... The Jaffa were the foot soldiers of the Goa'uld. The humans assigned to SG-1 used the P-90 extensively as their anti-alien weapon.
                              Forti Fors Bona

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Chazz View Post
                                FN does have the rights to the cartridge and other have made it, such as Fiocchi. However Fiocchi received a contract from FN to have the permission to make the round and it was still packaged as FN ammo. As new rounds have been developed in the past (.40 Smith & Wesson, .308 Winchester, .357 SIG to name a few) they are not throwing their name behind it for PR. Those manufactures spent the R&D dollars to make the round and then for a period of time, not sure the exact limit, others must obtain permission and pay a gratuity to manufacture it. The same is true for the music and car industry (e.i. being able to build Shelby Cobra kit cars without having to obtain permission from Shelby).

                                Glad to see others are making the conclusion that 5.7 x 28mm has a unique place, but not necessarily for the everyday patrol use of a LEO.
                                Dude your just making this stuff up as you go along. PLEASE provide some proof of this ??

                                You DO know for example that when Smith and Wesson developed the 357 magnum, that RUGER got a gun on the streets for sale at retail BEFORE S&W did ??

                                There is NOTHING new about the 5.7 cartridge that COULD be patented. It is similar in a ballistic fashion to the 22 WCF which was introduced in 1885, that is 127 YEARS ago. Take a 22 WCF, load it with smokeless powder and you pretty much have a 5.7.

                                As I showed there WAS a patent that expired in 1995 on one type of PROJECTILE, and there were some on the mechanisms used in the pistol and the P90, but even those have probably expired.

                                Bill
                                Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                                Comment

                                MR300x250 Tablet

                                Collapse

                                What's Going On

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 17306 users online. 493 members and 16813 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 26,947 at 08:36 PM on 12-29-2019.

                                Welcome Ad

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X