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FN Five-seveN pistol use

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  • #16
    I just want to thrown in a lol at this thread and the other o.com linked

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    • #17
      Originally posted by cnix880 View Post
      Did you guys try it on any type of armor plates or just soft armor?
      IIIA is soft. 5.7 would not be effective on level III hard plates.

      As for it being a crap round I will take the opinion of the Secret Service over m4carbine.net. It is a special purpose round and it is extreme effective at fulfilling that purpose.
      "When they kick out your front door, how you gonna come? With your hands on your head, or on the trigger of your gun. When the law break in, how you gonna go? Shot down on the pavement, or waiting in death row." - President Barack Obama

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Chazz View Post
        As for it being a crap round I will take the opinion of the Secret Service over m4carbine.net. It is a special purpose round and it is extreme effective at fulfilling that purpose.
        Uhmm....OK. But Dr. Roberts IS a recognized subject matter expert on terminal ballistics. I understand that not everyone there is.
        "It is better to avoid than to fight, better to deter than to kill. But.....it is better to kill than to die, or watch an innocent slaughtered, because you didn't have the wherewithal to defend them." - M. A.

        "We should bear in mind that, in general, it is the object of our newspapers rather to create a sensation-to make a point-than to further the cause of truth."-Edgar Allan Poe(1809-1849)

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        • #19
          I also wouldn't draw my conclusions off of what MW3 says about it, even though I still want a UMP45...
          the 5.7 is a nasty round, if you disagree with me then why don't you take a shot from one.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Taylor13 View Post
            I also wouldn't draw my conclusions off of what MW3 says about it, even though I still want a UMP45...
            the 5.7 is a nasty round, if you disagree with me then why don't you take a shot from one.
            I disagree with you, and I don't want to get shot with anything, including a .22 or a .17HMR. Hell, I wouldn't even want to get shot by a .17 air pellet gun. Does this mean that they are viable LE or self-defense weapons? I don't think so and I would say the majority of folks would agree with me. Can they all KILL somebody? Sure, but are they going to reliably and effectively STOP a threat? Most likely not. If you are comfortable carrying a caliber that small, then by all means, carry it. After all, carrying a gun is all about what YOU are comfortable with, not what a bunch of dudes on the internet are telling you
            Eat Meat, Build Mass!

            www.centralfloridaammo.com

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            • #21
              I don't know, I have seen some wicked stuff from a P90 and that is a great round IMO. I had some fun with one over in Iraq, one of the contractor kids had one and let me rip a mag off when I was running a range over there.

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              • #22
                Since we're talking about calibers that lack stopping power can any of you answer why the Beretta M9 (a 9mm) is issued to our troops? They need the best that's out there just as much as an officer working the streets in the U.S. so why didn't they stick with the 1911 or at least downsize to a .40?

                I'll use the Sig P226 as an example, it's used by SEAL's which as we know could have whatever toys they feel the need for. So why do they feel that a 9mm is sufficient? Most cops don't carry a 9mm and prefer/issued a .40 or .45

                Is a higher round capacity the reason for the SEAL's carrying a 9mm? Are they just confident enough in themselves (as they rightfully should be) that they can put that 9mm round where it needs to go (headshot)? Or maybe if they have to fall back on their sidearm the situation is already FUBAR and a slightly larger caliber won't help?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Chazz View Post
                  We have done some testing with 5.7x28mm on Level IIIA armor and it went through it like nothing, kind of scary. The price of the round remains high because FN does not allow anyone else to load the it.

                  Unless Flower Mound had just recently changed, they were not issued these as far as I know...
                  FN has no power to allow or deny anybody to load the cartridge. They may have a copyrite or trademark on calling it something or other, but people other then FN market 5.7 ammo.

                  I think that if a dept were to issue only them they should also issue a hornet or bee patch because the round is so similar in ballistics to the 22 hornet or the 218 Bee.

                  If your gonna issue P90's the 5.7 pistol starts to make some sense, but as a stand alone firearm with no P90 in the trunk, or weapon rack, IMHO not so much.

                  And when it comes to military issue 9mm pistols, the pistol tactically is such a last ditch weapon that if you have to employ it you have done something really wrong to begin with ;-). And the Seal guys again have and use other arms chambered in 9mm (mp5's etc.) so again common ammo starts to make some sense.

                  Bill
                  Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RSGSRT View Post
                    Since we're talking about calibers that lack stopping power can any of you answer why the Beretta M9 (a 9mm) is issued to our troops? They need the best that's out there just as much as an officer working the streets in the U.S. so why didn't they stick with the 1911 or at least downsize to a .40?
                    If you honestly believe the US Government purchases the "best that's out there" you really need to re-evaluate your thought process. Nothing about the M9 is "best". The main purpose for the 9mm chambering is to be in-line with NATO. It has nothing to do with "stopping power" or if it's "the best". Those of us who have actually carried the M9 have a less than favorable opinion of the handgun.

                    Originally posted by RSGSRT View Post
                    I'll use the Sig P226 as an example, it's used by SEAL's which as we know could have whatever toys they feel the need for. So why do they feel that a 9mm is sufficient?
                    Again, this defaults to a logistical requirement as well as a practical one. Guys who have never been on the pointy end of the spear like to assume things. Mission requirements are a little more in-depth than just picking the "cool" stuff. You also can't lump all SEALs into the same basket. Different teams have different needs and different TOOLS available. They don't just open the catalog when it's time to go OCONUS. They have equipment that has been selected and evaluated under specific criteria just like any other service member. The exception is the selection process is a little more streamlined and budgetary requirements are different.

                    A military sidearm is generally a "oh ****" weapon. It's a fallback for when your primary is out of service. Portability and ammunition compatibility are generally primary concerns. If you are forward deployed or embedded with another NATO unit, it would be pretty stupid to use a weapon with specialized ammunition.

                    Now of course this all changes if there is a specific need. This is why the US military has some rather interesting systems in their supply chain. I.E. Mark-23, MEU(SOC) M1911 and so on. There is a re-occuring theme when a pistol is needed to get the job done. It usually needs to punch the biggest hole possible and use ammunition that is available. The selection is usually based on 9mm or 45ACP because that is what is commonly available through military supply lines.

                    Generally I suggest leaving the SEALs, CAG/Delta, etc. out of any weapons discussion because their weapons requirements are so far apart from a cop/civilian/soldier/etc. that it just confuses the average joe.
                    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
                    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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                    • #25
                      Thanks Blackdog that was well explained. I should of realized that the 9mm was a NATO thing.

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                      • #26
                        Addison, TX PD is issued P90s..I know its not he 5.7 pistol but its the same round. you might try shooting them an email.
                        Chris

                        XBOX Live: Citizen GaKar


                        http://i36.tinypic.com/1zoxgtc.gif

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                        • #27
                          Are we having another FN 5.7 talk?
                          I make my living on Irish welfare.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Chazz View Post
                            We have done some testing with 5.7x28mm on Level IIIA armor and it went through it like nothing, kind of scary.
                            The round was designed for the purpose of penetrating Level III body armor. In my opinion, that makes it unsuitable for law-enforcement use, except in specialized situations. You want your armor to stop your duty round and the duty rounds of other officers.
                            Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                            Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by reils49 View Post
                              Are we having another FN 5.7 talk?
                              It wasn't supposed to be about the 5.7 round itself but about whether anyone out there allowed the use of the Five-seveN pistol and well it snow balled from there. Oh well.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by willbird View Post
                                FN has no power to allow or deny anybody to load the cartridge. They may have a copyrite or trademark on calling it something or other, but people other then FN market 5.7 ammo.
                                I don't want one and won't bother to confirm, but it actually does appear that they have a patent which would make it illegal for anyone to sell the cartridge without a licensing agreement with FN.

                                Here is the quote from Wikipedia:

                                "FN's 5.7×28mm ammunition types were briefly manufactured by Olin-Winchester, but today, they are made only by FN Herstal in Belgium and, since 2006, Fiocchi in the United States."

                                I suppose it is also possible that the low popularity of the round is the reason for so few ammo manufacturers, but it seems that it is usually the result of a manufacturer's chokehold on the rights to sell the cartridge.
                                Last edited by Fëanor; 01-14-2012, 11:53 AM.

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