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  • K9 Threats

    Problem: aggressive dogs when doing entries on warrants.

    I am in search of a low penetration round or other similar proven solution against K9 threats, for deployment in an indoor residential environment. Can be a dedicated weapon system, such as a 12 Gauge (anyone tried using breaching rounds, or other special purpose ammo for this purpose?) or similar weapon platform. The main concern is during a downward shot which likely will end up in the floor, but reducing overpenetration risk into a residence below, in a multi unit building.

    Looking for a low penetration/rapid stop tool for when entry is made, and there is a known aggressive dog threat present. Anyone out there with some creative solutions to this issue, I would like to hear from you. If it's sensitive for posting, feel free to PM me.

    Thanks in advance!
    http://www.facebook.com/workingdogsnh
    www.vandesterke.com

  • #2
    When dog shootings were on the rise at LAPD, they issued Co2 fire extinguishers to all the stations for use with aggressive dogs.

    It seems that the cold, frosty blast on their noses renders their sniffers useless and they will run away to try and figure out the problem, rather than stand and fight over it

    Now, for your next logical question...have I seen it done? Nope. Never even heard if ANYONE ever used it and found it successful.

    Since you're merely in the reasearch phase, perhaps you'll have to experiment...
    "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

    Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

    Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

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    • #3
      Yes, I have heard of that response, but I have not seen it deployed.
      http://www.facebook.com/workingdogsnh
      www.vandesterke.com

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      • #4
        We used suppressed .22 pistols and they worked like a champ, granted it wasn't residential warrants, but the dynamics are the same.

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        • #5
          We have a Ruger 10/22 for discreet pest removal. It works ok when you have time to pick your shot, but it's nothing I'd want to risk my butt on in a dynamic entry.

          In my personal experience I have found that large aggressive dogs need every bit as much gun as a large aggressive person. Having said that if you really want a dedicated dog stopper with a low threat of over penetrating, then you might have just found the one true use for a .410 revolver.

          As far as the CO2 extinguisher goes, I have used those and they work great. Just remember to bring a big one.

          Here's a good link to a DOJ Study, called "The problem of dog related incidents and encounters".

          http://www.nationalcanineresearchcou...nters%20sm.pdf
          Forti Fors Bona

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          • #6
            Federal TRU223E from a suppressed M4 does the job. The last puppy I had to put down with it dropped on the spot and no exit wound.

            The TRU223E is our current duty round.

            I would not want to test the effectiveness of a .22LR on a charging pit or Sheppard. Also remember that on an entry, and armed suspect is the primary concern. Dog bites are seldom lethal, gunshots can be. I don't want to be the guy on the stack up front with a .22 pistol. Understand, I HAVE a suppressed .22. It has it's purposes. It doesn't belong in the stack.
            "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
            8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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            • #7
              http://www.lightfieldlesslethal.com/...endedslug.html

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              • #8
                Thanks for the input, and ideas...

                We have the short barrel suppressed same as yours, Blackdog, and we also use TAP.
                http://www.facebook.com/workingdogsnh
                www.vandesterke.com

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by fyrdog View Post
                  We have a Ruger 10/22 for discreet pest removal. It works ok when you have time to pick your shot, but it's nothing I'd want to risk my butt on in a dynamic entry.

                  In my personal experience I have found that large aggressive dogs need every bit as much gun as a large aggressive person. Having said that if you really want a dedicated dog stopper with a low threat of over penetrating, then you might have just found the one true use for a .410 revolver.

                  As far as the CO2 extinguisher goes, I have used those and they work great. Just remember to bring a big one.

                  Here's a good link to a DOJ Study, called "The problem of dog related incidents and encounters".

                  http://www.nationalcanineresearchcou...nters%20sm.pdf
                  Thanks for the link...appreciate it!
                  http://www.facebook.com/workingdogsnh
                  www.vandesterke.com

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                  • #10
                    Just have the new guy pick up a pound of hamburger. Buy the dog's friendship.
                    I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

                    Douglas MacArthur

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                    • #11
                      As the paper on "The Problem of Dog-Related Incidents and Encounters" suggests, I've used pepper spray with 100% success. Nice thing about pepper spray, can wear it on my belt, and it's available to me when needed.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
                        Also remember that on an entry, and armed suspect is the primary concern. Dog bites are seldom lethal, gunshots can be.
                        ^^^This^^^

                        You wouldn't want to be lugging a fire extinguisher that takes 2 hands to use in case there is an aggressive dog when your primary concern is the human inside.

                        Any dog is going to act/seem "aggressive" when a bunch of strangers break into his house while yelling "search warrant" at the top of their lungs, it's a shame that they die because their owners are a-holes.

                        My Boxer is harmless and sweet to anyone who knows him, but he'll clearly scare the crap out of someone who breaks in.

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                        • #13
                          I've used a liberal dosing of OC to stop dogs.

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                          • #14
                            with an entry team, I would think OC risks contaminating the whole area including the blue team

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AxleFoley View Post
                              with an entry team, I would think OC risks contaminating the whole area including the blue team
                              If your team doesn't train with protective gear, then that is a whole separate deficiency that needs to be addressed.

                              However I will again state that the PRIMARY reason that a SWAT team is making the service needs to be the top concern. SWAT teams rarely make a warrant service just because there is a dog on scene. That is what Animal Control is for. SWAT makes a service because there is a dangerous SUSPECT on scene. That needs to be addressed first.
                              "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
                              8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

                              Comment

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