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  • AR Experts...

    What do you guys think of this?

    http://www.alexanderarms.com/item/19...etUpperKit.htm

    I have always been annoyed at the charging system for the M-4 (Almost punching myself in the fact when working a bad feed from high ready Etc)

    I'm assuming it is a decent forward assist device and in a way, a brass deflector as well.

    does anyone see drawbacks?

    M-11
    “All men dream...... But not equally..
    Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
    but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
    for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

    TE Lawrence

  • #2
    Reminds me of the one JP Enterprise has. I'm curious how they work myself.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmmm....interesting. Would you have to unscrew the charging handle from the bolt to remove the BCG from the receiver? And that handle looks HUGE.
      sigpic
      Originally posted by Smurfette
      Lord have mercy. You're about as slick as the business side of duct tape.
      Originally posted by DAL
      You are without doubt a void surrounded by a sphincter muscle.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not impressed with that at all.
        1. Looks like it would be a gear snaging nightmare
        2. Not sure how it attaches to the BCG but if you were to loose that charging lug your rifle is now as good as a club.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think it's any worse as far as snagging grae than all the other stuff people adorn their rifles with.

          The regular Charging Handle is still in play.

          M-11
          “All men dream...... But not equally..
          Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
          but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
          for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

          TE Lawrence

          Comment


          • #6
            The biggest drawback IMO is the manufacturer. Alexander Arms is a small, overwhelmed manufacturer. In recent years they have had relatively serious issues with quality control (batches upon batches of bad ammo with apparently contaminated powder, reports of ammo that shipped with a double charge of powder or no powder at all, rifles/uppers that were never test fired and won't even chamber a round, etc). AA is so overwhelmed that they believe it's completely unreasonable to test fire every weapon/upper.

            Personally my rifle from AA has not been too problematic although it had to be broken in before the FTF's stopped.
            Last edited by Fëanor; 05-24-2011, 08:00 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              First and foremost...

              The machining must be perfect.... Odds are it will not be. So you will end up beating the handle and the upper to death causing wear on the actual upper itself. You could possibly not have an issue with it IF they made the slot for the handle just a weeeee bit longer then the normal return. Again odds are they did not.

              $325.15 is a bit much to experiment with to see how they cut the upper imho...

              Mechanically that is the only major flaw that sticks out. Personally I would only consider this product IF they actually removed the forward assist completely as it is useless, again imho.

              As mentioned above the break down and cleaning pain the rear when removing the BCG.

              Bonus points for dumping a bunch of rounds through it and heating up the BCG, touching the handle and educating yourself with a checkered burn.
              The beatings will continue until morale improves.

              Originally posted by jcioccke
              After I hit it, I would be disgusted with her

              Comment


              • #8
                I do not like charging handles that reciprocate with the bolt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by David Hineline View Post
                  I do not like charging handles that reciprocate with the bolt.
                  Thinking about this, i can believe that the extra mass would increase recoil.....at the very least that extra mass would really beat up the upper, the locking lugs, etc. Not so sure I like the idea.
                  sigpic
                  Originally posted by Smurfette
                  Lord have mercy. You're about as slick as the business side of duct tape.
                  Originally posted by DAL
                  You are without doubt a void surrounded by a sphincter muscle.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A side charging handle will create lateral torque. That creates additional wear and tear on the locking lugs of the receiver as well as the bolt itself. Further, depending on the strength of the upper, the bolt and (its weakest point) the attachment point of the side handle itself, it's quite possible for their handle to shear off the bolt. Add to this the inability to have an ejection port cover (to those whom find one a requirement do to their AO) and it's a risky chance at best.
                    NRA Life Member

                    The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. - Sir Robert Peel

                    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If the charging handle is a big deal to you, why not try the BCM Gunfighter charging handle, they have a small, medium and large latch charging handles...

                      Now if you think that the charging handle being at the rear of the weapon causes another problem for you because your front end is too heavy then thats another issue.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think it all depends on your intended purpose. I'm amazed at how many people keep trying to make ARs be something that they are not. Everyone and their cousin wants to take an AR and make it an AK or an M249.
                        As a recreational rifle for precision shooting, hunting or plinking, it's probably a decent piece of hardware (supposing the tolerances are correct and true). However, as a combat rifle it's full of FAIL. The biggest issue I have is the lack of a dust cover. The dust cover is a pretty necessary tool to keep the rifle clean and in working condition. Beyond that, the manual of arms is different. You are introducing a new dynamic that requires re-learning. Now you're operating a weapon system that operates differently than 99.5% of all other ARs on the market. In a tactical/combat/duty environment, this not ideal. Further, if someone else needs to use your weapon, they now have an unfamiliar weapon system.

                        To be perfectly blunt about it, if someone can't figure out how to operate a charging handle correctly, they need more practice or they need to get a different weapon system altogether. If you're punching yourself in the face every time you operate the handle, then it's user error and you're just doing something wrong. Figure out what you're doing wrong and correct it. It'll save you $325.15.

                        If you want a side charging handle, get a weapon that was designed for one. Look into a Bushmaster ACR, FNH SCAR-16 or the forthcoming Beretta ARX-160.
                        Last edited by Reedo; 05-25-2011, 12:32 AM.
                        "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
                        -John Adams


                        Disclaimer: My statements are personal opinions, and in no way reflect those of my agency.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't see it as a change in the manual of arms. The only control change is the lack of forward assist, which the knob is for anyway.

                          The structural weaknesses however I can see as a concern, I wonder if they could be minimized by smart engineering the way the initial problems with piston carriers were fixed.

                          My punching myself in the face comment is a bit of an exaggeration, but when the M-4 is on a 3 point sling, on me with my level 4 running SPORTS while keeping myself Eyes, muzzle, Threat, could be easier.

                          I have broken charging handles with the jumbo latch while trying to ectract an over the bolt ejection failure, so I am going to deem that an imperfect solution as well.

                          M-11
                          “All men dream...... But not equally..
                          Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                          but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                          for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                          TE Lawrence

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The manual of arms is not the same. A side charging handle on the right side requires a hybrid of AK and AR actions combined to create an effective solution. This is not only for corrective action of malfunctions, but also for loading, unloading and any administrative action requiring the manipulation of the bolt. Not only that, but what's more concerning is that the handle is a snagging hazard. While snagging on clothing may not be a big deal if you wear tight clothing or gear, getting it snagged will likely pull the bolt out of battery. This is the key issue. The AR charging handle locks into place for many reasons, and one is to prevent the bolt from accidentally being pulled out of battery. Remember that the AR BCG uses a rotating bolt which does not easily go back into battery without some significant forward inertia or force. If you pull it out of battery, even just a little bit, and you don't notice and correct it, you've now just induced a malfunction.

                            A large latch is very effective, but even more effective when used in conjunction with a quality charging handle. The BCM Gunfighter and PRI Gasbuster are two examples of charging handles that are made to more durable and resilient than the mil-spec handle.

                            Again, this is all assuming the rifle will be used for any kind of tactical purpose. If it is only a recreational sporting gun for target shooting or varmint hunting, then go ahead and do whatever you want.
                            "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
                            -John Adams


                            Disclaimer: My statements are personal opinions, and in no way reflect those of my agency.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A side charging handle on the right side requires a hybrid of AK and AR actions combined to create an effective solution. This is not only for corrective action of malfunctions, but also for loading, unloading and any administrative action requiring the manipulation of the bolt.
                              Ok, What does it change? The normal Charging handle is still there, and functional.

                              I agree there are probably drawbacks, but I can't say it's worse than watching people use a "Bolt Override" Tool to lever their action open...

                              M-11
                              “All men dream...... But not equally..
                              Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                              but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                              for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                              TE Lawrence

                              Comment

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