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The London Metropolitan Police Force goes Hollow Point...

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  • The London Metropolitan Police Force goes Hollow Point...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13364365

    Met Police to use Jean Charles De Menezes death bullets.

    The Metropolitan Police is to issue all its firearms officers with the type of ammunition used to kill Jean Charles De Menezes.

    Hollow point bullets flatten and widen on impact, causing maximum damage to vital organs.

    The Met says the round is less likely to splinter, harming bystanders.

    Mr De Menezes, a Brazillian falsely identified as a suicide bomber, was shot dead in 2005 with hollow point bullets.

    'Comprehensive testing'

    After it emerged he was killed with the ammunition, cousin Alex Pereira said: "I am shocked and angry. I had no idea.

    "How can the police in the UK use bullets that the Army is not allowed to use?"

    The ammunition was previously chosen to be used on suspected suicide bombers because it has the best chance of killing them before they can set off a device.

    Former US mayor Rudolph Giuliani faced sharp criticism when he tried to bring in the ammunition in New York in the 1990s.

    All 3,000 Metropolitan Police firearms officers will now be issued with 9mm hollow point rounds.

    Police said the hollow-point bullets had undergone the "most comprehensive" testing process ever undertaken by them.

    Commander Jerry Savill, head of the firearms unit, said the research on ammunition would be made available to all other UK police forces but he said it would be up to them which bullets were used.

    David Dyson is a barrister and ballistics consultant.

    Asked whether the rounds were unsurvivable, he said: "Yes. They don't use these bullets in the anticipation that people will survive.

    "They expand, so you get the mushroom effect when the bullet hits the body.

    "Much more energy is being imparted into the victim."


    From John Farnam:

    What Progress!
    11 May 11

    Magic Bullets in the UK!

    In a news article today, the BBC laments that London Metro Police (the few of them who are actually armed) will now be issued "unsurvivable" hollow-point ammunition, "outlawed in warfare under the Hague Declaration in 1899."

    As a side note, you won't find the term "hollow-point" anywhere in the 1899 Hague documents. The actual language vaguely describes small-arms bullets which "easily expand." Curiously, during the 1899 debate on the subject, it was in fact, the British themselves who defended the use of such ammunition!

    In the often-incorrectly referenced "Geneva Conventions" of 1864, 1906, 1929, and 1949, the subject isn't even mentioned. Those discussions concerned themselves mostly with treatment of prisoners and non-combatants.

    "Much more energy is being imparted into the victim," continues the article. Of course, said "victims" are violent criminals, so adored by the media, there and here.

    Not a word, of course, about the way this ammunition will make injury to officers, innocent citizens, and bystanders far less likely. After all, who cares about any of them?

    Gotta love those Brits! They've now "advanced" from seventy-five years behind-the-times to a mere thirty years behind-the-times.

    What's next, shotguns in beat-cars?

    /John


    http://www.defense-training.com/quips/11May11.html

    As for me - Dam. I'm so cutting edge. I've been using hollow point for years...when I upgrade from a flintlock to a cap & ball revolver I may even go to jacketed bullets!

  • #2
    haha wow.... same i feel pretty cutting edge. i know several former Met cops and it sounds horrible over there, most don't carry and plus they are truly hated by a majority of the population... sounds like a [email protected]*t hole to me.

    and "victims" thats just priceless....

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow...so much Britishness oozing out of that. It's just sad.

      I LOL'd at "death bullets"; WTF is a bullet SUPPOSED to do? O_o
      Last edited by Murf425; 05-13-2011, 01:45 PM.
      Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
      Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."

      Comment


      • #4
        Also, when I read this:
        David Dyson is a barrister and ballistics consultant.
        ...I wondered what a "barrister" is. Sounds like the male-version of the girl who sells me my coffee at Starbucks.

        Then I read this:
        Asked whether the rounds were unsurvivable, he said: "Yes...
        ...and it just confirmed my initial thought. I mean...he's obviously only a part-time ballistics guy if he really believes that, right? So how do I get a Starbucks/ballistics expert job? That sounds awesome!
        Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
        Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."

        Comment


        • #5
          The part that got me was that there was a need for ballistics consultants in the UK. There can't be more than 1 or 2. There isn't enough firearms!

          Comment


          • #6
            Unsurvivable??? Really?? We've been using hollow point rounds for at LEAST the last 30+ years, and the rate of kills vs. wounded is not even comparable (we have WAY more wounded than killed).

            Wow. Just wow.
            sigpic
            Originally posted by Smurfette
            Lord have mercy. You're about as slick as the business side of duct tape.
            Originally posted by DAL
            You are without doubt a void surrounded by a sphincter muscle.

            Comment


            • #7
              And I thought NYPD was way behind their time (as NYPD adapted hollow points in the mid 90s).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Murf425 View Post
                Also, when I read this:

                ...I wondered what a "barrister" is.

                Barrister’s are trial lawyers.


                Absolutely insane article!
                Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

                Comment


                • #9
                  As incredible as this article is, it is really not that surprising.
                  Eat Meat, Build Mass!

                  www.centralfloridaammo.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
                    Barrister’s are trial lawyers.


                    Absolutely insane article!
                    Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. A barrister is a lawyer, which only adds to your point, Murf. Barrister/ballistics expert... WTF? That article really is funny read from our perspective in the U.S. I wonder what a Brit would think when he came over here and saw 2 shelves, one labeled "practice ammo" and one labeled "duty ammo." I guess their version of practice ammo would be dry fire.
                    "No one can make you feel like a turd without your permission." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I did a major paper in college on the London Met. I even had a few phone interviews with a couple of Inspectors (big wigs). One of them told me that it will be likely that in the next decade or so, they will look to arm 1/4 of their police officers. So, its not that shocking they are just now going hollowpoint.
                      Stay safe out there

                      "Cancel that central, its a moose"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by adeutch View Post
                        Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. A barrister is a lawyer, which only adds to your point, Murf. Barrister/ballistics expert... WTF? That article really is funny read from our perspective in the U.S. I wonder what a Brit would think when he came over here and saw 2 shelves, one labeled "practice ammo" and one labeled "duty ammo." I guess their version of practice ammo would be dry fire.
                        I think they would ask "what is this dry-fire thing you speak of?".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Facepalm.

                          I'll never see Hot Fuzz quite the same way again.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Highwaystreets1 View Post
                            haha wow.... same i feel pretty cutting edge. i know several former Met cops and it sounds horrible over there, most don't carry and plus they are truly hated by a majority of the population... sounds like a [email protected]*t hole to me.

                            and "victims" thats just priceless....
                            One day when you grow up, you might be able to visit the UK and then you might be in a position to express an opinion based on you own experience but let me be the first to tell you that members of the Metropolitan Police are not 'truly hated by a majority of the population' and nor is any other British Police Force.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Murf425 View Post
                              Also, when I read this:

                              ...I wondered what a "barrister" is. Sounds like the male-version of the girl who sells me my coffee at Starbucks.
                              If you genuinely 'wondered what a "barrister" is', you could have easily done some reseach rather than give the impression that you are truely ignorant.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrister

                              Comment

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