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  • Blue Force Gear VCAS sling

    I have been shopping for a sling for my Sig 556 Patrolman's rifle. It has some integral sling point attachments, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to use them. In addition, with a folding stock, I didn't want to connect the sling to the toe of the stock as it would not work properly when folded. All this to say, I had to finally abandon my trusty Spec-Ops Mamba that I use on all my AR-15 rifles, and was forced to find something new!

    Knowing a bit more now than I did when I started using the Mamba, I set out for a functional two-point sling that would not run a strap down the side of the rifle. In addition, even though I do not have a weapon light for the rifle right now, I plan to add one in the future (same with optic, but the optic doesn't really come in to the equation when picking out a sling setup). I figure I will put the light on the left side of the forearm, to be activated with my left thumb. If I used the HK style sling attachment point that comes on the front gas block of the rifle, this would [potentially] block the light.



    I decided on a rail-mounted side sling swivel attached to the rear portion of the rail, which puts the sling behind my left hand, and away from where a weapon light will eventually go.




    For the rear, I decided to use the HK style attachment point integral to the rifle, and picked up an HK hook-style sling attachment.




    I like the setup, and it wears very nicely. I was a bit surprised that Blue Force Gear used cotton instead of nylon webbing for the straps. I adjusted the sling up a little tighter than it came in the box, so in its "tightened up" position the rifle sits up higher on my chest. With the adjustment opened up, the sling is perfect for retention while providing plenty of length for movements.

    I am slotted for a 5-day rifle school later this month, and this is the sling/rifle I plan to run. I can't wait!

    Last edited by jwise; 09-08-2010, 12:39 PM.
    J. Wise

    AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

    "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

    Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

    sigpic

  • #2
    Looks good. I run a modified VTAC on my shotty. I really like the design, but I wish I went with the VCAS, because when you run the VTAC in tight mode you wind up with a tail from the excess fabric. The VCAS solves that, which is a huge bonus. I run a Magpul MS2 on my M4gery, which has a similar design, but can switch from 1 to 2 point.
    Let no one lose heart on account of this Philistine; your servant will go and fight him

    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to the modern age. Good to see you retired the dinosaur. Don't see many 3 point type slings like the mamba and for good reason.

      I don't really like a sling point too close to the magwell as it has 2 main draw backs from what I have found.
      1) It lacks the full benefit of an adjustable sling when you cinch down the sling to add support and control of the muzzle. Getting the connection further out, but not to interfere with the support hand allows for far greater control when you "lock in" the sling. You will note that my work rifle below, does not allow me to get the connection further out, just due to my extended shooting style and overall length of the MK18 barrel. However a shorter and lighter muzzle end allows me more transitional control. Of course muzzle blast and overall weapons mannerisms gets worse with a short barrel, but it is all about trade offs and what works, at least for me.
      2) It lessens control of the muzzle when the weapon is slung.
      Both 1 and 2 are not generally realized by shooters who do not know a good technique for utilizing a sling for muzzle control / stability when shooting (ie like a sniper might lock into a sling when shooting a position other than say prone). Or #2 is often not fully realized unless if you sling a rifle and do a lot of climbing, scaling walls, fences, rappelling etc. This is where muzzle control of the rifle when slung is really appreciated. Again the shorter barrel suffers less from this also.

      As for the VCAS, I have been running a VCAS from pretty much its inception and it is hard to beat one of the original designs for this adjustable type. I have a box full of slings and by far the VCAS is the best IMO. I get new slings, run them for awhile and always end up back with the VCAS as my go to sling. The only other sling I still run (outside of testing) is the Emdom, which I have one on a rifle and one on my Benelli M1.

      I primarily run either padded or non padded versions of the VCAS on the majority of my rifles. Most are however 2 point to one point convertible slings. And yes, many of us were running 2 point to one point convertible slings long before the MS2 was even put on the table. Even my MS2 and ASAP lasted about 2 weeks before getting thrown into the box. On the good side of things, the MS3 is due out soon and is supposed to not only address and fix the shortcomings of the MS2 but should have some new "eye opening" features. We will see and I hope this is true, but it will be hard to beat out the VCAS and the set up that I have come to like.

      My 2 point to one point VCAS has gone through about 4-5 re-designs before I settled on the current set up. Since QD attachments have become such widespread use, I run QD's as connection points front and rear. The rear I run a QD endplate and most all of the current or modern stocks run QD's in them. This gives me some good options for connection points. The front I run an HK style hook that clips onto the QD swivel. The rear I run a mash hook connected to the QD swivel. I snug the mash hooks hood close to the swivel to eliminate rattle but it freely glides from side to side. On the rear I also run a fastex type of buckle. When wearing gloves or under stress the QD is often hard to detach from. The fastex type of buckle is an easy detach if you need to separate quickly from the rifle. Just above the fasted I run a D ring on the bottom of the sling which is the rear attach point for a 1 point sling. Emdom copied this style and IMO the MS2's inline ring design suffers when you transition to the support side as the sling likes to bind up.

      Here is my basic set up.
      Front


      Rear


      My current work rifle, with the similar configuration.
      The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

      Surfs Up on youtube!

      Specialized Services Group on Facebook!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Surf View Post
        Welcome to the modern age. Good to see you retired the dinosaur. Don't see many 3 point type slings like the mamba and for good reason.
        Well, I have spent many hours running a Mamba, and I am completely comfortable with that platform. The side strand may bother some, but I have gotten very used to it, and it no longer bothers me. I have never had any problems manipulating the rifle with the sling in place, and don't see the need to spend nearly $100 per rifle to set them all up with new attachment points and VCAS slings.

        I don't really like a sling point too close to the magwell as it has 2 main draw backs from what I have found. <SNIP>
        Right, but this rifle will eventually get SBR'd, and so I went with the short gas system. Much like your Mk18, there is not enough room to push the sling out any further.

        As for the VCAS, I have been running a VCAS from pretty much its inception and it is hard to beat one of the original designs for this adjustable type. I have a box full of slings and by far the VCAS is the best IMO. I get new slings, run them for awhile and always end up back with the VCAS as my go to sling. <SNIP>

        I primarily run either padded or non padded versions of the VCAS on the majority of my rifles. Most are however 2 point to one point convertible slings. <SNIP>

        My 2 point to one point VCAS has gone through about 4-5 re-designs before I settled on the current set up. Since QD attachments have become such widespread use, I run QD's as connection points front and rear. The rear I run a QD endplate and most all of the current or modern stocks run QD's in them. This gives me some good options for connection points. The front I run an HK style hook that clips onto the QD swivel. The rear I run a mash hook connected to the QD swivel. I snug the mash hooks hood close to the swivel to eliminate rattle but it freely glides from side to side. On the rear I also run a fastex type of buckle. When wearing gloves or under stress the QD is often hard to detach from. The fastex type of buckle is an easy detach if you need to separate quickly from the rifle. Just above the faste[x] I run a D ring on the bottom of the sling which is the rear attach point for a 1 point sling.
        I have heard such great things about the VCAS. I'm glad I finally found one at a good price and in person, so I could make sure it would attach properly before I paid for it. I like your setup with the QD swivels and mash hooks. I definitely understand why you went with the mash hook combo up front (to convert to 1-point), but I'm a little confused why you went with the combo on the rear. It just seems like extra moving parts to me.

        I might take a page from your playbook and add a mash hook to the front, and add a D-ring to the sling. I like the idea of switching to a 1-point sling.
        J. Wise

        AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

        "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

        Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          I slapped one of my Streamlight M3's on the Sig for now:




          It works well with the sling attached to the rear. Very comfortable.
          J. Wise

          AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

          "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

          Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not trying to jack your thread jwise, so if I'm overstepping my bounds please let me know and I'll start a new thread.

            Surf, I have a few questions about your sling setup:
            1 - On your rear attachment point, why do you hook a MASH clip to a QD swivel? I realize you have the QD swivel for easy removal, but why do you have the MASH hook instead of hooking up the sling directly to the QD swivel?
            2 - On your front attachment point, why do you hook the HK clip to a QD swivel instead of using an HK attachment point?
            3 - Where did you get the D Ring that you use for the single point conversion? Also, just out of curiosity, where did you source your MASH hook/Fastex buckle webbing adapter?

            Thanks in advance,

            Bill

            Comment


            • #7
              I was wondering the same things as Mystickal. And apparently Surf is so popular his PM box is full so I resorted to posting here.

              Comment


              • #8
                While we wait for Surf to respond, let me make an observation.

                Oftentimes, we use what we have on hand. I would not be surprised if Surf's answer to "why do you hook a MASH clip to a QD swivel" is as simple as "that's what I had in my parts bin."

                BTW- I switched my front attachment point to an HK hook, so I can convert the sling to single-point. Very slick....



                Notice the hook itself has an eyelet, for attaching another hook into!



                Perfect!

                Last edited by jwise; 11-24-2010, 03:21 PM. Reason: To clear up the HK/Mash hook thing.
                J. Wise

                AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mystickal View Post
                  I'm not trying to jack your thread jwise, so if I'm overstepping my bounds please let me know and I'll start a new thread.

                  Surf, I have a few questions about your sling setup:
                  1 - On your rear attachment point, why do you hook a MASH clip to a QD swivel? I realize you have the QD swivel for easy removal, but why do you have the MASH hook instead of hooking up the sling directly to the QD swivel?
                  2 - On your front attachment point, why do you hook the HK clip to a QD swivel instead of using an HK attachment point?
                  3 - Where did you get the D Ring that you use for the single point conversion? Also, just out of curiosity, where did you source your MASH hook/Fastex buckle webbing adapter?

                  Thanks in advance,

                  Bill
                  Sorry for the delay Bill, I have been extremely busy the last few weeks at work. Zero time for anything else but the family on my time off.

                  1 - I find that the mash hook slides easily from side to side when I transition to the opposite side with the rifle. If you just do the sling direct to the swivel it isn't bad but at times it binds up the sling a bit when transitioning. My evolution by using the Mash hook solved this issue. This was what Magpul and others adopted or designed with their end plate set ups like the ASAP. Remember myself and others were experimenting and running these set ups and piecing together or making our own parts as no one was making these set ups specific for what we were doing with our slings. Now the ASAP might be the answer but it is too noisy and rattles. The hood on the Mash hook all the way up solves this. Yes you can cut the link off the ASAP but the amount of rotation to each side is too great from my experiences. The QD only allows the mash to slide side to side but it also rotates to stay out of the way.

                  2 - HK attachment point is not a problem and works well. However most of my rifles have rails with built in QD sockets and I could easily change slings on rifles without the separate HK hook on each rifle. The above rifle I used a 10" rail that I altered to fit the fixed FSP but it did not have QD sockets so I added the QD attachment simply because I already had a box of them. An HK attachment is a good option.

                  3 - I have boxes and boxes and boxes of gear. I purchase and get a lot of T&E stuff sent to me for some reason. I often cannibalize or re-purpose items to fit my needs. As for the adapters, Blue Force Gear and others make entire lines of these various adapters now. A couple - three years ago it was unheard of. You had to make your own. As mentioned, many companies didn't make a new wheel, they just took the ideas of others and took them to market. Good for them.
                  The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

                  Surfs Up on youtube!

                  Specialized Services Group on Facebook!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ccarton1988 View Post
                    I was wondering the same things as Mystickal. And apparently Surf is so popular his PM box is full so I resorted to posting here.
                    Sorry, lazy might be a better word for it. Sorry been so darn busy I haven't had time to clean things out.
                    The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

                    Surfs Up on youtube!

                    Specialized Services Group on Facebook!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oh no worries, I understand. I was wondering which version of the VCAS you started with...It seems they have quite a few options now including one with QDs sewn into the strap already....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The above photo of my 10" barrel rifle was taken just after its initial paint job. 6 months and approx 8.5K rounds later, this is the rifle as it sits now and how I actually deploy it. Since then I have the Noveske QD endplate, BattleComp 1.0 muzzle device, BAD lever, BCM gunfighter handle with my own customized PRI Combat Latch and I moved the light to a FSP mount for extra grip clearance on the short barrel. The Vickers VCAS label came off and the Krylon paint job is broken in. Almost time for a $3 touch up. Krylon, cheap, simple, effective.

                        I am also getting away from PMags at the moment. I really prefer the slicker surface of the USGI housing. I am using Magpul internals and ranger plate for upgrades, but I think I like the USGI mag tubes better in how they draw from every pouch I have ever tried. I just needed to paint them up to give them my own touch however.

                        I am getting ready to alter and improve the AFG pretty soon. Don't want to say too much yet, but when Magpul starts making the AFG3, my version, you heard it here first!

                        End plate connection, two point.


                        Stock connection, two point.


                        End plate connection, single point.
                        The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

                        Surfs Up on youtube!

                        Specialized Services Group on Facebook!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just a slight clarification on jwise's post.....HK hooks and mash hooks aren't the same thing.

                          There are HK hooks:
                          http://www.originalsoegear.com/hk.html

                          And there are mash hooks:
                          http://www.originalsoegear.com/mash.html
                          "It is better to avoid than to fight, better to deter than to kill. But.....it is better to kill than to die, or watch an innocent slaughtered, because you didn't have the wherewithal to defend them." - M. A.

                          "We should bear in mind that, in general, it is the object of our newspapers rather to create a sensation-to make a point-than to further the cause of truth."-Edgar Allan Poe(1809-1849)

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                          • #14
                            Thanks Surf, that was exactly the info I was looking for. I already have a VCAS padded sling, and had been looking at various setups to connect it to my AR. Your setup looks to be the most versatile and customizable, and isn't too expensive either. I had suspected that the MASH hook on the QD at the endplate might be for easier transitions, but since I haven't tried it I figured I'd ask to be sure. I was able to source a D-ring for the two to one point conversion - I have seen the use of the HK hook hole for the conversion but I think that during drills that is a small hole and suspect the D-ring will be much easier to use. I also picked up a BFG MASH hook quick release adapter that I'm going to attach to a Blackhawk Single Point Sling Adapter, with the other end of the sling attached to an HK hook attached to a QD swivel.

                            I'm hoping Santa will be nice and hook me up with a GearSector rail mount HK loop to replace the swivel - they look solid but are just a little too expensive for me to splurge on right now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              For those that haven't noticed yet Blue Force is selling the VCAS sling at half price provided your OK with the camo green color. Looks like they have free shipping till the holidays also.

                              http://www.blueforcegear.com/categories/Specials/
                              There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

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