Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

.380

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • .380

    I am in the market for a new back up. I have been carrying Springfield XD subcompact for about 2 years and I love it. Its just a bit too heavy. I have recently been looking at a .380. I don't have much experience with this caliber so my question is this:

    Is it a realistic option for a BUG, and if the S$&T really hits the fan and I have to use it will it have enough stopping power or is just going to **** someone off. Lastly, can anyone recommed a good gun? I have been considering the new Sig 238 (even though I have sworn off Sig, it has the best sights of any I have looked at)

    Thanks for the help!
    “Fear not the night.

    Fear that which walks the night.

    And I am that which walks the night.

    But only evil need fear me…

    and gentle souls sleep safe in their beds…

    because I walk the night.”

  • #2
    I really like my 238, and your right, the sights are top rate. 600 rounds so far and the only problems I have had were due to aftermarket magazines........Stick with the Sig mags and you'll be good to go

    My LCP hasn't come in yet, so I cant give a review on it yet....

    I actually carry a .38 J frame for a BUG, (just a general dislike of an auto for the job), but I have no problem carrying the .380 off duty. When you need something small and light, its hard to beat. .380 is as small as I'd go though
    Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    --Winston Churchill--

    "Si vis pacem, para bellum"

    Comment


    • #3
      I was considering the LCP, but after playing with one at the gun store I decided against it. The sights are too small, I don't think I could shoot from 25 yards with accuracy ( which is what our qual consists of).
      Thanks for the info on the 238!
      “Fear not the night.

      Fear that which walks the night.

      And I am that which walks the night.

      But only evil need fear me…

      and gentle souls sleep safe in their beds…

      because I walk the night.”

      Comment


      • #4
        I wouldn't worry too much about the sights... if you need your back up gun, the odds are you won't be using your sights anyway.

        You're going to get a myriad of answers here regarding a .380 so I won't even get into it.

        Have you looked at the Kahr .380... here's a pic comparing the SIG and Kahr. Kahr is a little more expensive, but they make a quality gun.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jannino View Post
          I wouldn't worry too much about the sights... if you need your back up gun, the odds are you won't be using your sights anyway.
          True, however, if I can't qualify with it then I cant carry it on or off duty. Thats why I am looking for something with good sights, because I have to shoot it from 25 yards
          “Fear not the night.

          Fear that which walks the night.

          And I am that which walks the night.

          But only evil need fear me…

          and gentle souls sleep safe in their beds…

          because I walk the night.”

          Comment


          • #6
            You're very right, but that's nothing that can't be accomplished with some practice. You can also get the kahr with night sights.

            Comment


            • #7
              In reference to the 25 yard quals, for Kansas we have a total of 50 shots in it. 6 are fired from 25 yards in a minute time span. The rest of the shots are from 15 yards on in. So we need 35 out of 50 to qual. So get them all up close and work on the 25 yard shots in practice. There will be no problem.

              Well, the 380 ACP is an interesting little round. He had a suicide the other night where a 380 was used with ball ammo. It was a self-inflicted head shot and the bullet made a complete pass through and ended up going through 4 trailer walls. The slug was located with minor deformation. So, it does work. I got no problem with a 380, like it's been stated before. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

              Kansas
              I trust my life with J. M. Browning's design, the 1911.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by FutureCop1 View Post
                I am in the market for a new back up. I have been carrying Springfield XD subcompact for about 2 years and I love it. Its just a bit too heavy. I have recently been looking at a .380. I don't have much experience with this caliber so my question is this:

                Is it a realistic option for a BUG, and if the S$&T really hits the fan and I have to use it will it have enough stopping power
                Nope. Not according to people such as Dr Roberts who does the ballistics testing for all manner groups:

                Here is his advice on the .380:

                Many small, easily concealed semi-automatic pistols which are recommended for law enforcement backup or concealed carry use fire .380 ACP or smaller bullets. While these small caliber handgun bullets can produce fatal wounds,they are less likely to produce the rapid incapacitation necessary in law enforcement or self-defense situations.

                Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not acceptable for law enforcement use and most savvy agencies prohibit them.

                While both the .380 ACP and .38 sp can obviously be lethal; the .38 sp is more likely to incapacitate an attacker when used in a BUG role.

                BUG--Infrequently used, but when needed, it must be 100% reliable because of the extreme emergency situation the user is dealing with. Generally secreted in pockets, ankle holsters, body armor holsters, etc... Often covered in lint, grime, and gunk. By their very nature, usually applied to the opponent in an up close and personal encounter, many times involving contact shots. A small .38 sp revolver is more reliable in these situations than a small .380 ACP pistol, especially with contact shots or if fired from a pocket.

                The Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP and Corbon 110 gr DPX JHP offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2” BUG.

                .38 Sp Speer 135 gr +P JHP Gold Dot (53921), ave vel=856f/s
                BG: pen=13.1”, RD=0.56”, RW=134.5gr
                4 layer denim: pen=13.6”, RD=0.53”, RW=134.1gr
                auto windshield: pen=9.4”, RD=0.51”, RW=129.6gr

                http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/q...135GDRecov.jpg

                Downside to the 135 gr +P Gold Dot is the appreciable recoil and relatively poor intermediate barrier performance.

                .38 Sp Corbon 110 gr JHP DPX (using Barnes XPB all copper bullets), ave vel=1021fps
                BG: pen=13.0"; RD=0.52", RL=0.52", RW=109.5gr
                4 layer denim: pen=12.4"; RD=0.52", RL=0.51", RW=109.7gr

                http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/q...g?t=1234159334

                135 GD and 110 gr DPX--notice the failure of the Hornady .38 Sp 110 gr FTX "Critical Defense" load to expand after 4 layers of denim...

                Cont:

                http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-19914.html
                - Will

                Performance/Fitness Advice For the Tactical Community

                www.OptimalSWAT.com

                General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

                www.BrinkZone.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  PM9 > any .380.

                  This topic has been beaten to death, there are several postings on this topic, I know because I've posted on most of them.

                  Bottom line, I got rid of my LCP for a PM9 and never looked back.
                  Seriously, the only reason I wanted to be a cop was so I could post anywhere on this forum.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have carried a KelTec P3AT for years.

                    I carried it because my G26 was a little too thick for someone of my size to conceal where I wanted to conceal it.

                    With the current crop of 9mm handguns I have seriously reconsidered carrying a .380 BUG. I was picking up some bullets and primers yesterday at my local funshop. A KelTec PF9 caught my eye.

                    It's the same design at my P3AT. It's DAO and it's almost the same thickness. It will be a little heavier, but since my new vest is lighter it will equal out. Now if I could just find someone with a Walther PPS in stock so I can handle it.

                    Unless you absolutely need the smallest pistol possible, do not get a .380. Go with a micro 9mm.
                    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
                    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have the Keltec .380 Light, COMPACT, accurate close quarters weapon.

                      I look at BUGS as the surprise that might keep me alive. Most gun battles in LE happen up close and fast. No need for 25 yard accuracy in a BUG, in my humble opinion. If you've got 25 yards btw you and the bad guy and your down to your BUG, I'd be backpedaling fast and putting down cover fire with the BUG as I go.
                      "The wicked flee when no man pursueth
                      but the righteous are bold as a lion"

                      Proverbs 28:1, inscription beneath NLEOM lion.sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Highwaylaw View Post

                        I look at BUGS as the surprise that might keep me alive. Most gun battles in LE happen up close and fast. No need for 25 yard accuracy in a BUG, in my humble opinion. If you've got 25 yards btw you and the bad guy and your down to your BUG, I'd be backpedaling fast and putting down cover fire with the BUG as I go.
                        I could not agree more, but like earlier stated, I have to be able to accurately fire it from 25 yards to qualify with it. I think its ridiculous to shoot from 25 yards with my BUG, but thats what the Chief decided.
                        “Fear not the night.

                        Fear that which walks the night.

                        And I am that which walks the night.

                        But only evil need fear me…

                        and gentle souls sleep safe in their beds…

                        because I walk the night.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FutureCop1 View Post
                          I could not agree more, but like earlier stated, I have to be able to accurately fire it from 25 yards to qualify with it. I think its ridiculous to shoot from 25 yards with my BUG, but thats what the Chief decided.
                          Geez, our backup qual. only goes out to 15 yards. I dont know how everyone else feels , but I think you will be hard pressed to do well w/ the Keltec at 25 yards ( depending on the time constraints and number of rounds you have to shoot from there).
                          "The wicked flee when no man pursueth
                          but the righteous are bold as a lion"

                          Proverbs 28:1, inscription beneath NLEOM lion.sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            3 rounds, combat reload, then 3 more rounds. All in 45 seconds (the reload is not timed) so plenty of time.
                            “Fear not the night.

                            Fear that which walks the night.

                            And I am that which walks the night.

                            But only evil need fear me…

                            and gentle souls sleep safe in their beds…

                            because I walk the night.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My money is still on the Kahr. I really think you will be impressed.

                              Comment

                              MR300x250 Tablet

                              Collapse

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 3316 users online. 185 members and 3131 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 158,966 at 04:57 AM on 01-16-2021.

                              Welcome Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X