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  • 9MM at Fort Hood

    Here it is again guys. The ole 9MM debate. The ammunition did as it was designed to do, stopped the threat. How is it that the debate finds its way into congrats for the Sgt. that stopped the threat? The fact that the BG survived is not the issue, the threat was stopped. Sure, the kill the guy gut feeling comes out in all of us over an incident like this, but I know two guys that sucked up more than one .40 hollow points to the chest and abs and survived. Below are two comments from the article on the o.com home page that got me started on this rant.

    BTW, I carry a 9 on and off-duty. I keep ball ammo in my bug out bag.

    Great job shooting the scumbag 4 times center mass, or close to it. I know with your Beretta M9 with FMJ Ball Ammo it was very challenging to take the suspect down. Usually with ball ammo you have to shoot the suspect in the head or spine to immediately incapacitate them. Hopefully the Army and all other DOD Police will finally catch on and at least arm their officers with Hollow Points, preferrably Glock .45 Auto or .40 S&W like the US Pentagon Police Dept. Officers carry. He would not have survived with HPs in his chest! Magic bullets I guess.

    Fort Hood - 9mm
    I'll wager this brave police officer was using government issued FMJ 9mm loads.
    .40 or .45 is what the police should be issued.
    Good work officer.
    My OODA Loop: Observe, Over-react, Destroy and Apologize.

  • #2
    The caliber debate is blown out of proportion. There is nothing wrong with 9mm. There is no magic bullet that stops with 1 round. Some people who get shot with a .22 die and some that get shot with a .45 live. Anything between 9mm and .45 will be fine for duty use. Some people are just harder to kill.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by MCSD241 View Post
      Some people are just harder to kill.
      Guess we are gonna need a .46 then....
      My OODA Loop: Observe, Over-react, Destroy and Apologize.

      Comment


      • #4
        Shot placement is the key to killing quickly.

        I have a little 380. If people think the cal of the round really matters that much I openly offer anyone who wants to to shoot themself in the leg with my pistol.

        M-11
        “All men dream...... But not equally..
        Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
        but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
        for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

        TE Lawrence

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        • #5
          The detectives at Fort Hood use Sig 40's so there is a possibility that she as a SGT was carrying a SIG. Although the MP patrols at Hood carry Berettas
          on the job.....

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          • #6
            I was curious about the FN Five-Seven as I know nothing about it and went to Wikipedia, as it's the usual first link. They already have it listed as the Fort Hood shooter's weapon.

            Comment


            • #7
              First of all the first responding officer (the female who did a great job) was a civilian city PO. not a military PO. so she could have been armed with a Glock .40 for all we know. I doubt she had a berretta.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by JasperST View Post
                I was curious about the FN Five-Seven as I know nothing about it and went to Wikipedia, as it's the usual first link. They already have it listed as the Fort Hood shooter's weapon.
                Thats weird, that weapon was the one that crossed my mind when I first heard about the 30+ injured. questions went through my head like, when did he re-load? how were there so many injured? I wondered if he was using something like this with its 20 round mag with optional 30 round extention. also the 5.7 would easily penatrate numerious people before stopping. That would account for the high number of injured.

                I would like to know if that was the weapon he used or not.
                Last edited by superninjap3; 11-07-2009, 08:27 AM. Reason: sp

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                • #9
                  Superninja, Sgt. Munley is a Department of the Army Police Officer. She was also an MP in the Army. Standard issue is M9, but I do know some carry different to place more M9's on the battlefield.

                  FORT HOOD — However complete her training or rounded her experience, Sgt. Kimberly Munley may be forgiven if she never expected a scene quite like the one Thursday, when she found herself in a courtyard facing an Army major apparently gone berserk and a body count that would keep rising unless she stopped him.

                  Two quick shots from her Beretta 9 mm — pop, pop — and now Munley had the attention of the gunman. She had missed. He was angry. Now his Belgian-made 5.7 mm pistol was pointed not at the already wounded soldier he was chasing, but at Munley, a civilian police officer hired to help keep order at the sprawling base.

                  He charged her, firing rapidly along the way. She returned fire and dropped to the ground to give herself more cover. Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army psychiatrist who in an inexplicable instant had turned from caregiver to accused mass murderer, was allegedly in the process of killing 13 people and wounding 38 more. He now had Munley in his sights.
                  Last edited by Gunhand; 11-07-2009, 08:41 AM.
                  My OODA Loop: Observe, Over-react, Destroy and Apologize.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Im tired of hearing this story on the news.
                    Especially from moronic sensationalized media who know nothing about the military and nothing about firearms or combat dynamics. You would think after all the "embedded" journalist spending time riding with troops during our various conflicts they would be the experts. I also could give two cares about the muslim aspect of it or sound bites from his family about how he was bullied, Ive never bought the "coolaide" political correctness that being skeptical of the muslim religion is necessarily a bad thing, If it was up to me I wouldnt even allow them to serve in the first place. As for the Sgt. Kudos to her. Ofcourse a couple of shots from a 45acp or a carbine rifle would have been more effective then the inferior 9mm and she may not have been shot as a result, but guess we will never know. She survived and carried on. God bless her. She is a hero.
                    Last edited by Nightshift va; 11-07-2009, 09:14 AM.
                    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by superninjap3 View Post
                      Thats weird, that weapon was the one that crossed my mind when I first heard about the 30+ injured. questions went through my head like, when did he re-load? how were there so many injured? I wondered if he was using something like this with its 20 round mag with optional 30 round extention. also the 5.7 would easily penatrate numerious people before stopping. That would account for the high number of injured.

                      I would like to know if that was the weapon he used or not.
                      Your kidding right? You do not need a "high capacity" magazine to cause a lot of damage. How long does it take to empty a 10rd magzine? Say 4-5 seconds? Plus 2-3 seconds to reload, you can fire off 60 rounds in less than a minute into a densely packed room.

                      A minute is about how long it takes from a person thinking about calling 911 to that emergency call getting received by an officer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nighshift va:
                        Im tired of hearing this story on the news.
                        Especially from moronic sensationalized media who know nothing about the military and nothing about firearms or combat dynamics. You would think after all the "embedded" journalist spending time riding with troops during our various conflicts they would be the experts. I also could give two cares about the muslim aspect of it or sound bites from his family about how he was bullied, Ive never bought the "coolaide" political correctness that being skeptical of the muslim religion is necessarily a bad thing, If it was up to me I wouldnt even allow them to serve in the first place. As for the Sgt. Kudos to her. Ofcourse a couple of shots from a 45acp or a carbine rifle would have been more effective then the inferior 9mm and she may not have been shot as a result, but guess we will never know. She survived and carried on. God bless her. She is a hero.
                        ^ Oh the ignorance.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kreutzer,_Jr.
                        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati..._at_iraq_.html
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_city_bombing
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_mcveigh

                        I guess we shouldnt allow Christians to join the military as well since they are also capable of murder and destruction, in the military and out of it. Seems like everyone else is just as peaceful...Extremists can be found in every race, religion, and creed. Dont rail on people who answer the highest calling to serve their country, I think Muslims who serve should be given just as much respect because of their willingness to serve in these timess and show that not all are how the media portray them to be. RIP to those slain at Fort Hood, you will be in our prayers, Sgt. Munley is truly a hero. God bless America.
                        "You know why there's a Second Amendment? In case the government fails to follow the first one."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by superninjap3 View Post
                          First of all the first responding officer (the female who did a great job) was a civilian city PO. not a military PO. so she could have been armed with a Glock .40 for all we know. I doubt she had a berretta.

                          Negative. She was a federal DA police officer, not a city officer and Beretta 9's are standard issue for military bases. You probably need to check your stats brother because military installations have been using federal civilian police officers for decades.

                          Also, just to point out that this is not the first shooting on a military base in recent times. Ft Drum, NY had two officer involved shootings here within this past year. The first one was a hostage situation where the suspect held two civilian officers hostage after he pulled out a handgun on a domestic. A K-9 officer exchanged gunfire with the perp and he was killed after two ball rounds sliced through his face, through the back of his head, through the wall and into the adjoining apartment next door, finally lodging into their couch.

                          Ft Drum now carries tazers and hollow points. I'm surprised that Ft Hood and many of the other installations didnt learn from Ft Drum's incident.
                          Last edited by Unit453; 11-07-2009, 12:39 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jak77 View Post
                            ^ Oh the ignorance.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kreutzer,_Jr.
                            http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati..._at_iraq_.html
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_city_bombing
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_mcveigh

                            I guess we shouldnt allow Christians to join the military as well since they are also capable of murder and destruction, in the military and out of it. Seems like everyone else is just as peaceful...Extremists can be found in every race, religion, and creed. Dont rail on people who answer the highest calling to serve their country, I think Muslims who serve should be given just as much respect because of their willingness to serve in these timess and show that not all are how the media portray them to be.
                            The media has been softpeddling it as much as possible. Muslims do serve honorably but let's not overlook any beliefs of anyone if the ideology drives them to do harm to their own. In this case, he sided with the Islamo-fascists rather than fight them.

                            And McVeigh wasn't Christian, sorry for the bad news.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The caliber debate is a bunch of hooey. The Sgt. who opened fire on Hassan stopped the threat without a huge volume of fire. Hassan was pretty messed up afterward and nearly died. Now maybe a .45 would have sent body parts all over the place, but at that point hits are what counted, as she was taking fire from Hassan. As always said two to the chest with a 9mm kicks the hell out of a .45 in the dirt.

                              Comment

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