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  • Dear O.Com Gun Gurus (you know who you are) -

    Almost 33 years ago, I started my LE journey carrying a .38 revolver. Once upon a time, I owned a Colt 80 series 1911, but had to part with it due to $$$ problems. I shot better with the 1911 at a training day, but alas, was not able to carry it. Around 1988/89 I made the transition to the Baretta 92FS. Finally buckeled down and shot Distinguished Expert with the 92FS.

    Okay, so then in 2006, with but a few months left at LAPD, I made the switch to a Glock 21 and carried it for the remainder of my career, there.

    So in June 2008 I started with my current PD and was issued the Glock 22. Shooting well with it, but it's their gun, not mine. And now, it appears I will be the Chief of Police for small agency and can carry anything I want...including the 1911. Last Dec. 26th, acting on the fear of the gun-hating BHO's ascention to the throne, I went out and bought a Taurus 1911. Shoot well with it at the indoor range, but a thought crept up in my noggin, today. I've never trained LE-style with it.

    I do not privately own a Glock, any longer, and I'm getting the idea in my head to get a .40 cal. S&W conversion kit for the Baretta 92FS...

    Signed,
    Confused in Castle Rock, CO
    "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

    Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

    Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

  • #2
    Take your 1911 to some local IDPA matches, ensure you use good tactics and practice.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would suggest a G21 or G21SF since you have already trained on that platform. I would NOT carry the Taurus unless you beat the snot out of it, then have a 1911 smith (NOT the local gunshop) look it over.

      Only carry a 1911 if you are dedicated to training with it.

      Get the 92FS idea out of your head. There isn't really anything that platform does well.
      "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
      8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

      Comment


      • #4
        What’s this post suppose to get going in terms of a thread?

        You bolded two points:
        1) 1911
        2) Never trained LE style with it.

        I’m reading into this that those who can and do carry 1911’s do so latter in their careers (or come back to the 1911 after a long separation from it as a duty firearm) and don’t have similar amounts of training with it.

        There reason I’m navigating to these points is I too am in this boat.
        1) I’ve LE trained with the Glock 22 in 40sw. It was policy I had to use a DA and the Glock being the cheapest of the permitted options I went that route.
        2) Since basically not becoming a LEO yet, and since I have a good income and since I like shooting and reloading as a hobby I found that there are firearm options I’m more interested in more so than popular LEO options. This of course the 45ACP launched by a 1911.
        3) Now, wanting to continue to entertain myself and shoot competitively I basically decided to use my duty gear at IDPA and IPSC events. When I put the 1911 on my belt my performance diminished greatly relative to my Glock. A few things kept causing me frustrations:
        a. The draw was much different.
        i. Using the same type of holster with the same retention devices as my Glock the unlocking step took a little more of my hand to disengage it, and being a longer gun it took a little to clear the holster.
        b. I kept forgetting about the manual safety.
        c. With the grip safety on the 1911 I had to make sure my grip was also more consistent.
        d. Reloading was much easier.

        NOW!!!!!!!! Here’s another kicker about training, and I’m critical about this point in regard to my LE range training with the Glock. We always trained with SIX rounds in the magazine (I take it this is because of revolvers back in the day and they haven’t changed training procedures). We NEVER maxed out our rounds at the range until the last few range days when my class was on auto pilot with graduation near. As such I never really trained with full magazines.

        Do you know where I’m going with this folks? Putting in a FULL magazine into a Glock takes A LOT MORE EFFORT than putting a half filled magazine into a Glock. So I found myself having the magazine fall out at IDPA events because I wasn’t trained to use the additional force in loading a FULL mag with a Glock.

        Now I’m fine with both (Glock and 1911) now that I can practice to my heart’s content outside the control of procedural training and firearm selection limitations.

        Why do some of us like 1911’s more so than anything else? I have no justifiable reason other than it’s cooler. The thing is heavier, it holds less rounds, and in the end I’m not measurably more accurate/faster with it.
        _____________
        "Corruptisima republica plurimae leges."

        "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."
        - Cornelius Tacitus

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SCV-Sop View Post
          Why do some of us like 1911’s more so than anything else? I have no justifiable reason other than it’s cooler. The thing is heavier, it holds less rounds, and in the end I’m not measurably more accurate/faster with it.
          I've got more going for me with a 1911. I can shoot more precisely, faster, and make hits further with a 1911 than any other pistol. The grip and ergonomics fit my hands perfectly.

          In the end, it is about which pistol you are most proficient and most confident. For me it is a 1911 while for others, it will be a different pistol.

          Comment


          • #6
            I love the 1911 because it's an iconic American handgun.

            I shoot pretty well with either my 1911 or my G21. I choose the 1911 for carry because its a nice bit of firepower in a thin package. Mine has been well vetted so I am confident in it's reliability.
            "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
            8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

            Comment


            • #7
              If you like the Glock you can probably get a pretty good deal Keith. PM me or get with me at work and I can suggest a few LE dealers where you can get a good price. Or lots of ammo to burn through that 1911.
              The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kieth M. View Post
                Almost 33 years ago, I started my LE journey carrying a .38 revolver. Once upon a time, I owned a Colt 80 series 1911, but had to part with it due to $$$ problems. I shot better with the 1911 at a training day, but alas, was not able to carry it. Around 1988/89 I made the transition to the Baretta 92FS. Finally buckeled down and shot Distinguished Expert with the 92FS.

                Okay, so then in 2006, with but a few months left at LAPD, I made the switch to a Glock 21 and carried it for the remainder of my career, there.

                So in June 2008 I started with my current PD and was issued the Glock 22. Shooting well with it, but it's their gun, not mine. And now, it appears I will be the Chief of Police for small agency and can carry anything I want...including the 1911. Last Dec. 26th, acting on the fear of the gun-hating BHO's ascention to the throne, I went out and bought a Taurus 1911. Shoot well with it at the indoor range, but a thought crept up in my noggin, today. I've never trained LE-style with it.

                I do not privately own a Glock, any longer, and I'm getting the idea in my head to get a .40 cal. S&W conversion kit for the Baretta 92FS...

                Signed,
                Confused in Castle Rock, CO
                First, congratulations on making Chief! That's a great cap on a long career!

                Second, I am curious; are you now an administrator or are you still working the streets? Are you in uniform, or plainclothes?

                Third, get the idea of a .40 S&W conversion kit for the Beretta out of your mind.

                Lastly, until you put in the time and expense of getting well-trained with the 1911, you would be well-served with a Glock 21 or 22, whichever you like shooting the most!
                J. Wise

                AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would carry the 1911, but not the Taurus. Get a good one and train with it. Old design, for an old guy. And you can't discount the coolness factor.
                  The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

                  Surfs Up on youtube!

                  Specialized Services Group on Facebook!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Keith,

                    Congrats on making chief...

                    Why not carry what you are comfortable with ? Beretta has the 90-two in .40 cal. and has a 15 round mag. One of my buddies dumped his Glock for it and has never looked back. I think I will do the same.

                    Irving.

                    PS.

                    Is your new agency hiring ?
                    Attached Files
                    Saving the world,one funeral escort at a time....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've trained on the Glock 23, 22, and 21SF. I've trained with and without tac-lights, and I've shot expert each time I qualified with any of them.

                      Of all, my favorite is the Glock 21SF although I'd be content with a Glock 21 too. The fatter grip would be kind of comfortable for me.

                      You're used to the Glock 21 so why not go with it? It provides you with .45 acp "power," you get 13 rounds in your magazine, and they're just so durable.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jwise - I'll be working the street/handling calls...for more than half of my 40 hour week. It is rare, here, to draw a weapon in contrast to LAPD Rampart, where I drew my weapon almost daily for high-risk car stops, reponses to crimes in-progress, or building searches.

                        Guys, the idea was not to go out and buy another gun...I'll have to turn in my Glock 22 when I depart my current agency. I think though that I'm going to have to bite the bullet, so to speak, and purchase another gun, since both my Beretta and my Taurus are getting zero-to-no love. Last night, I got turned onto the new Colt 1911 w/tac rail...that's looking like it wants to follow me home: http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-...T_PISTOLS.aspx

                        Allegedly, there will be a better-priced LE-only model in blue.

                        Gonzo, sorry, but I'm not aware we have any openings at this time. There are several CO POST hoops one must jump through to go from CA to CO.
                        Last edited by Kieth M.; 10-31-2009, 04:01 PM.
                        "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

                        Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

                        Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just a thought Keith, if you don't really want to buy another gun, why not keep the Beretta in 9mm and not spend the extra money. Despite what the 9mm haters like to spew, there truly isn't much ballistic difference between 9mm and .40. I'm not basing this on opinion, I'm basing this on actual documented data showing both rounds to be almost identical in terms of muzzle energy, penetration, expansion, post expansion diameter and weight retention.

                          I'm currently transitioning from 9mm to .45, where I do find there to be enough of a difference for me to desire a change, but it's primarily for personal reasons and was perfectly comfortable patrolling the ghetto with my 51 rounds of 9mm..

                          If you are going to buy a new gun, I'd go with either the G21, G21sf, or the M&P45 (my new gun). For you, the G21/21sf has the distinct advantage of being a gun you are used to, it's comfortable to you and like riding a bike... That said, I think the M&P is finally getting the respect due to it as more agencies pick it up. Along those lines, as more agencies have picked it up, S&W has made improvements to various issues with the gun, trigger, extractor, finish, etc.. When you pick it up at the gun store, you will notice a gritty feeling in the trigger, please rest assured this goes away after pulling the trigger 200-300 times, and becomes nice and smooth. I went through a lot of turmoil between the G21sf and the M&P45, in the end, the M&P just felt so much better in my hands.

                          (I should add, I'm probably not one of the guru's here who you were soliciting, I just wanted to add my opinion anyhow)
                          Seriously, the only reason I wanted to be a cop was so I could post anywhere on this forum.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A good 1911 is hard too beat. I love my Ed Brown but I carry a Glock 21 on duty. You can't go wrong with a Glock and since you're already familiar with it, I'd bite the bullet and buy one.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Keith, I still think that you should stay with your Beretta.

                              If you're determined on going to the bigger round then check out the 90-two.

                              I also own/carry the 92 (9mm) at work and have for over 11 years. I am probably going with the 90-two in .40 because I'm comfortable with the weapon (it's the same design and function, but made of polymer therefore lighter)and, I won't lose capacity by going to a larger round as opposed to say the Glock 21 (13 rounds) or a 1911.

                              Plus,with that Colorado winter coming, I assume you'll be wearing gloves...
                              The oversized Beretta trigger guard accomodates while the Glock leaves alot to be desired.....just sayin'
                              Saving the world,one funeral escort at a time....

                              Comment

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