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  • Gunfights

    Just curious.......I am restricted to ten round mags because I am a lowly "citizen" in the golden state.....

    I was just wondering.....Does anyone know if someone has written up the stats of shots fired in gun battles?.....I'm wondering what the average number of shots fired (per participant) in gun battles truly are.

    Logic would dictate that if you are engaged in a gunfight, the more ammo you have the better, but that said, my guess is that the vast majority of gunfights are over with less than 10 shots fired per participant.

    I'd like to hear other opinions and/or experiences on this.
    Jubilant Patriotic Republican

    America gave Obama the benefit of the doubt when they elected him. Obama is now giving America the doubt of the benefit of his governance......Change you can bereave in!..JPR

  • #2
    Originally posted by JPR View Post
    Just curious.......I am restricted to ten round mags because I am a lowly "citizen" in the golden state.....
    I am restricted to 8 round magazines becuase that is what fits in a standard 1911. I carry one in the weapon and two spares. That is 25 round to allow me to figure out how to get to my long gun. I feel that is plenty for a concealed carry. Now if I am going into combat then the more ammo the better, and I sure am not going to be taking a pistol.

    Worry more about precisely using what you have instead of worrying about carrying more.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
      .........Worry more about precisely using what you have instead of worrying about carrying more.
      I concur wholeheartedly.
      Jubilant Patriotic Republican

      America gave Obama the benefit of the doubt when they elected him. Obama is now giving America the doubt of the benefit of his governance......Change you can bereave in!..JPR

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      • #4
        The FBI keeps stats, and it is something like 3 rounds fired, or something similar. At least, that's what it was the last time I looked into it...
        J. Wise

        AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

        "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

        Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

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        • #5
          Sorry, someone beat me to the mag capacity issue, however I do have some 10 round single stack mags for my 1911's. So I guess the lowly citizens need not feel so "lowly", just carry the correct pistol and learn to shoot it well.
          The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

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          • #6
            I was told the FBI stats from 2007 said the average shots fired was something like 2.3 rounds.
            “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

            "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

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            • #7
              Nobody's ever been shot at and wished they'd brought less ammunition.

              As civvies, those rounds are good for getting us out of trouble. Police need to carry enough to take themselves into trouble. The amount of ammo you hear about as a typical police loadout will be a lot higher than what you need.

              When you reconcile those two thoughts, let me know. I've acquiesced to letting wardrobe decide it for me, most days. I always have at least my P3AT and an extra 6-rounder on me. When I can, it's the 1911. My reasoning is that if I can't get away from trouble that necessitates more than two mags, having more ammo isn't really going to help.
              **Not a LEO**

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TimK View Post
                Nobody's ever been shot at and wished they'd brought less ammunition.

                As civvies, those rounds are good for getting us out of trouble. Police need to carry enough to take themselves into trouble. The amount of ammo you hear about as a typical police loadout will be a lot higher than what you need.

                When you reconcile those two thoughts, let me know. I've acquiesced to letting wardrobe decide it for me, most days. I always have at least my P3AT and an extra 6-rounder on me. When I can, it's the 1911. My reasoning is that if I can't get away from trouble that necessitates more than two mags, having more ammo isn't really going to help.
                Wardrobe isn't a factor for me since where I live CCW doesn't exist (for all practical purposes.)

                You make a good point contrasting the tactical difference between a purely self defense scenario and an apprehension scenario.
                Jubilant Patriotic Republican

                America gave Obama the benefit of the doubt when they elected him. Obama is now giving America the doubt of the benefit of his governance......Change you can bereave in!..JPR

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                • #9
                  So, are you planning on open carrying? Are you one of the privileged few? Is this an academic question?

                  There's a very good thread over at The High Road forums called It Happened To Me: Carry Stories. There are a lot of interesting anecdotes regarding how civilians carrying firearms (legally or not) approached various social problems. In practically none of those stories was a firearm actually employed against another human being. There are a few reasons why that might be.
                  A) Individuals who'd been in deadly force encounters may be less likely to want to speak for legal or traumatic reasons.
                  B) The confluence of events that bring together multiple parties of armed men is fairly rare*.
                  C) Typically when confronted by resistance, many criminals will seek less difficult prey. Largely because they count on B.

                  Your best bet to surviving a gun battle isn't to carry superior hardware, but rather to not be in any in the first place. No Nonsense Self Defense has some great coaching on the proper mindset to stay out of trouble, as well as a variety of other self-defense related topics.



                  *Unless you're dealing smack. Then all bets are off. Void where prohibited.
                  Last edited by TimK; 10-22-2009, 03:08 AM.
                  **Not a LEO**

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JPR View Post
                    Just curious.......I am restricted to ten round mags because I am a lowly "citizen" in the golden state.....
                    Do you folks in California have a restriction on the amount of spare ammo you can carry on your person?

                    502
                    Retired Lawdawg & Proud IMPD Papa!




                    "Justice is the one thing you should always find"
                    Toby Keith

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                    • #11
                      For officer involved shootings, it is 2-3 rounds, 5-7 feet, in darkness or night conditions.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 55-502 View Post
                        Do you folks in California have a restriction on the amount of spare ammo you can carry on your person?

                        502
                        No, there is no law in CA limit how many mags you can carry. How ever, we need to carry 2 10rd mag to match 1 standard Glock 17 mag.
                        Taiwan born, Chinese descent, red white and freaking blue America citizen.

                        http://oldnoobloveguns.blogspot.com

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                        • #13
                          In our area, officer related shootings have a grossly high number of shots fired. The officer related shootings shot count are above the national average and the officer usually completely empties their first magazine in most cases.

                          All incidents are not the same, but it doesn't hurt to carry an extra magazine regardless of number of rounds in your magazine. You can always do a tactical reload during the lull in the action.

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                          • #14
                            Also, don't bather with those stats. Stats can be view from many different way. The famous FBI officer fire stats was true (2.3 or 3, I don't have the stat in front of me), but remember stats are average of high and low. For every officer that didn't fire a shot in a gun fight, there are an officer reloaded 3 times with standard 17rd G17 mags.

                            Carry the biggest gun you can and bring most ammo that you can.
                            Taiwan born, Chinese descent, red white and freaking blue America citizen.

                            http://oldnoobloveguns.blogspot.com

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                            • #15
                              I follow Massad Ayoob's advice and carry an extra mag, not just to have more ammo. He makes the point that magazines are a mechanical componant and mechanical devices sometimes fail.
                              So even though here in Michigan I can carry the full 13 rounds in my G23, I also have a spare mag. Of course since I'm going to be carrying an extra, I got a 15 round G22 mag because I can.
                              There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the moon landing and those that don't.
                              http://unistat76.blogspot.com/

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