Stole a bolt gun

[nadler20]

I bought an FN PBR 18" in .308 on the EE at ARFCOM a couple weeks back. Had 40 rounds through it and came with a Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x40 (sweet glass btw), Weaver rings, Harris bipod, sling swivels and 40 rounds of Prvi 168gr BTHP. This is where we come full circle to the thread title: $700.

It'll be a deer/elk/range gun. This is my first bolt action and as such I've been doing a lot of reading on the Hide and SC to get myslef as squared away as possible before pulling the trigger. Further tips and advice on precision shooting are always appreciated. Pics in a day or two. I'm hoping to shoot it this weekend.

Found a pic from the sale

[Surf]

Man, if I jack someones stuff, I don't leave them any money for it.

I hope you get in as a cop, because you sure won't make it as a criminal.







Nice find.

[zeplin]

Man, if I jack someones stuff, I don't leave them any money for it.

I hope you get in as a cop, because you sure won't make it as a criminal.







Nice find.

Dam Surf! Please give some kind of warning before you say anything like that again. I read it and spewed coffee all over my keyboard & screen. Lucky for you I had an extra keyboard.


Nice gun nadler20.

[135dB]

Good score! I have almost the exact same set up and I think it cost me $1100 3 yrs ago (scope, rings & rifle.) Great shooter

[SoCalSheriff]

.308 not really an elk gun...but depends on distance and load.

Really? I took a nice elk 2 years ago, 400 yards out with my .308. I was shooting Hornaday 180gr factory SP loads. Taking the same rifle out this year to Utah for its 2nd go at elk.

[Mike 842]

That rifle will be fine for a range/deer rifle, but a little on the lite side for elk. The ballistics quoted are incorrect.

The 180 gr. Hornady Spire point has a BC of .434. Maximum loads in a .308 using 180 grain bullets produce 2600 feet per second OUT OF A 22 INCH Barrel. Subtract 100-150 fps for the 18" you have. Roughly 2450 fps at the muzzle.

At 400 yds out from the muzzle, your velocity will be well under 1800 feet per second and the bullet drops 55.8 inches. This from the "Hornady handbook of cartridge reloading" page 325-326.

Elk hunting generally involves a limited amount of time to hunt, less than ideal conditions, they usually don't "pose" for you while you get set up, and usually less than an ideal shot/angle.

To overcome this and put the odds more in their favor, elk hunters generally start at the 7MM Remington Magnum and go up from there. The 7mm and a 3x9 leupold is the most popular /common outfit used by elk hunters out West according to a survey of hunting guides. They like to zero in at 2.5" high @ 100yds, giving a point blank range of 250 yds, using 160 gr. bullets @3000 fps.

That simply means that if you get one in the crosshairs, aim where you want the bullet to hit.

It also means you have to practice and find out what YOUR particular load is running at. You can get a chronograph for around a hundred dollars. You also have to accept responsibility for attempting to make a shot at long range beyond yours and the rifle/caliber's capabilities. One thing guides HATE to do is spend time tracking a wounded animal. ALWAYS use enough gun for what you're doing.

[fdkay]

I would think that a 165 grain sst would suffice. High B.C., deep penetration.
I would suggest you contact hornady.
Another option would be the excellent Speer 165 grain hot-cor bullet. I use Hot-Cors in my 7x57 and 7RM with excellent results.

[RJ-Seattle]

One thing guides HATE to do is spend time tracking a wounded animal. ALWAYS use enough gun for what you're doing.

Psshh. Who needs guides? Do the work yourself, if you can. The .308 is fine for elk, especially the smaller elk of many of the coastal states.

Reasons?
(A) Shorter-range shots. Nadler and I are both in Western OR at present, and around here you'd be incredibly lucky to get a shot longer than 150 yds. It's just too brushy and thickly treed, too green, and too damp/foggy/cloudy.

(B) Shot placement. As long as you pick your shots, and don't just pop one off at a patch of hide, you'll be fine. It's like hunting deer with a .223 Rem, or .243 Win. The .308, .270, 7mm-08, are all fine for elk, provided you know your gun's (and the shooter's) limits. You won;t be making 400-600 yard shots, but other than in high-desert states, who does? Most people can't get a first shot on target at that range anyway, let alone a live moving animal.

(C) Correct bullet weight. you'll want to use something in the 160-180-ish weight range, simply because more weight drops your velocity for no real gain. Don't buy into "knockdown power" stories...as most of us know, (and as has been discussed to death here on O.com) "knockdown power" doesn't really exist. Short of a .50 BMG, I doubt you'll knock an elk down often. Most times it's a ragged hole that causes severe blood loss that brings down your game. Sometimes it's structural damage to front shoulders. Rarely is it a central nervous system strike, and never is it the impact from a bullet.

That carries into...
(C) Correct bullet type. You'll need controlled expansion, weight retention, and more penetration than with a deer. I used Winchester/Hornady/Federal ballistic tips on deer. They expand fast, but tend to come apart and are a little light, IMO, for a through-and-through on a large elk. Now, with a bullet that comes apart in the target, yes, you dissipate maximum energy into the target...but how will you track it? A Barnes X, Winchester FailSafe, or Hornady Nosler Partition will expand nicely, make a large hole, and exit as well, leaving you a blood trail to follow.

On another note, Nadler...you find a good spot to hunt elk/deer...let me know. I'll bring everything but your rifle.

[blackhorse]

I grew up in the Colorado Rockies. My first elk hunt was when I was 12 years old. I'd hunted deer for the two years prior to that. Additionally, I've hunted elk in Washington, & Wyoming. All at ranges much greater than 150 yards. Usually just above or right at the timberline. Record distance shots are made there. I would never consider using my .308 on elk. When you're talking about 700 lbs on the hoof for an average elk, and as much as over a 1,000 lbs for the grand daddy trophie elk, .308 just won't get the job done. Maybe just maybe if you're lucky enough to happen within 80 yards of a standing elk and you can get your shot off, you might get lucky enough to nail him, but are you going to trust your hunt to luck and most likely an empty tag to your .308?

I've seen .308's fail on Colorado Mule Deer at ranges out past 150 yards and we're talking about an animal about 1/2 the size of an elk. While I am very comfortable hunting them with my .308, on mulies, shot placement is absolutely unforgiving especially at 200 plus yards out. And you want to try the ultimate hunt, try hunting Antlope in Wyoming where your shot is 1,000 yards. Try that with a .308.

And I find the .308 is almost too big to hunt the little white tails they have here in Louisiana and Texas, which are not much larger than a big dog compared to the size of mulies and elk.

[Mike 842]

Blackhorse, One of the BEST hunts I've ever been on was a 3 week trip to Wyoming. Pulled a non-resident Elk, Mule deer and antelope tag on the drawing. hunted the last couple of days of "goat" season before going up to Turpin, just outside jackson. Could'nt get within a half mile of them, they'd spot you with those 7X eyes and be on roller skates, running @35 mph. Funny to watch. (Never got a shot)

Spent a week up in the high country.rode horses to get from mountain to mountain ,than walked up one side and down the other. saw cows, but no bulls.

came back down and went to Cody and saw the museum at the Buffalo Bill Center, alot of guns and art by Remington and Russell. Went to Jackson and got a tee-shirt at the 'million dollar cowboy' bar. Beautiful country.

Went back to Upton where the friends I was hunting with lived and hunted a relative's private ranch for Mule deer, shot a nice buck and was able to get him processed there in Upton and got some of the best summer sausage ever.

By this time , antelope season had been closed for two weeks and they were lined up alongside the highway ,watching cars go by.

I love it out there, if it wasn't for the CWD issue, I'd be puttiing in for a tag every year. As it is now, I just hunt whitetail and turkey .

[blackhorse]

Mike 842 - My wife comes from a small town called Afton in the Star Valley, most my hunts for elk in Wyoming were along the fringes of the Bridger - Teton National Forest area. Way up in the Grays River area. Did a lot of fly fishing out of that river. There use to be a huge elk herd just outside of Afton on the way to Grover. That was back in the 70's and 80's. Can't say if it's still there, but I've killed more than my share of bulls from that herd. I remember one winter it was so bad we had to harvest almost the entire herd. They were stuck in a ravine and starving. We culled the herd down and then fed the rest with hay the rest of the winter. Winter in that valley is brutal. Back in the day, once the snow closed the pass, you were stuck until the thaw.

I hear you on the goats. The best and most disappointing (in that I never got close to a shot) hunt I ever had was a big horn sheep hunt I drafted for in Colorado in the late 60's. They literally laugh at you after they make you climb for hours just to set up and they take off on you. Easily the most sure footed animal in the high country. They can run straight up or straight down a sheer cliff.

In Jackson, just a couple streets from the Million Dollar Bar is a shop that sells old Winchester Rifles. Ever been there? I almost had a heart attack at the prices of those rifles. I think the cheapest one in the store was $10,000 and I remembering the one that one of a kind Winchester that had a $600,000 price tag. I believe at the time, they only sold Winchesters. Again, this was almost 40 years ago. Don't know if they are still in business.

[Mike 842]

Mike I would gladly compare apples to apples. But you dont have my kind. I was quoting exactly the Speer manual page 284 30 Spitz- SP .483 co-efficient refrence page using reloading powder RE15 Max muz velocity 2613. Page 711 Zeroed at 300 yrds muzzle velocity 2070 and at 500 yrds 1755 dropping 38.1 inches. Energy per grain is 6.84x1755 at 500yrds.

Your numbers reflect 165 grain in my book specifically the 30 spitz sp. When someone claims Im wrong I will gladly bow to experience and age and research my own fault. This instance I will remain on the side of my Speer manual and the company that has more money and research then me.

Excellent idea on the Chrono for store loads with publications and actual test for his custom length barrel.

Mike I do thank you for challenging me, I just read more to become familiar.

I think you'll find that EVERY manual is different.Those ARE the numbers for the 180 Spire point. from the Hornady book. My speer manual, #10, lists MAXIMUM muzzle velocity for the .308 with ANY 180 gr. bullet from 2455-2555.

Of course all data is obtained using different test mediums,using different powders/primers/cases. That is why book data varies and what load may be safe in one rifle is not in the other.

Nosler #3 shows reloader15 giving 2640 with 42.5gr. but a top load of IMR 4064 putting out 2720 fps.

The thing to remember, this is with Winchester cases,a federal Match primer and a 24 inch barrel .Using a 180 partition , the drop @500 yds is 4 feet. Our OP here has got himself a generic Police sniper rifle with a 18 inch barrel. Take off at least 300fps for the shorter barrel.

Every reloading Company that puts out a manual uses different parameters to obtain their data. From varying barrel lengths to the latest and greatest (in their opinion) powders to temps the loads were tested at, so don't believe everything you read as gospel.

I have found good data in the Lyman books, all the loading manuals are is a guide you have to read thru and work up loads from.

I don't know about you, but when I shoot something, I want it to be DRT (dead right there). The 5x5 Muley I shot last was. I shot him with a .300 Win. mag. 180 HORNADY Spire point on top of 70 grains of IMR 4350. He fell over where he stood, like a bolt of lightning hit him. this load shoots 3 shots under an inch @ 200 yds and is running @3100fps 10 ft. from the muzzle.

[Mike 842]

Blackhorse, That 3 week hunt was in the early 80's. Went back out there in 1988 with the wife and just did the 'tourist' thing, walking down the wooden sidewalks of Jackson and taking a couple trailrides. Drew a tag about 10 years ago, but the snow hadn't covered the ground yet to push them down . last couple trips , hunted out of Montana ,near the park. Had 3 cows walk thru the crosshairs , but no bulls. Shot a nice 5x5 Muley. Would've liked to look at those Winchesters, but did'nt see that shop. Went to a gun show in Helena, supposed to be a good show, the rifles there looked like they had been dragged by a pick-up over a gravel road. Absolutely no finish left on them.

I was really planning on moving out there when I retired. Than we went thru Sheridan in late october and saw the snow and found out why everybody lived in/near the towns. The nice mountain retreat people last about 3 years befor leaving for warmer places. stay safe.

[Surf]

Hey guys, do ya'll think I can take some moose squirrel with the .308 or should I go 20mm Vulcan?

[zeplin]

Your gun is a Marlin 336 30/30 150grain with a 4x scope. You have been tracking a 12 point whitetail all afternoon. 10 minutes til close of season you see him at the edge of the trees. Range 185yds. No wind. Flat terrain. Rear to you at 7o'clock. What is your point of impact going to be for a one shot kill? Do you take the shot? Why? Why not?