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  • "Man stopper" myths.

    This is one of those essential reading articles that reminds us none of the common duty rnds people carry are effective man stoppers unless something vital is hit. People can take an amazing amount of damage:

    "Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs—considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available—Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream."

    Cont:


    http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-a...E43EA06A47B949

    Another essential read, if you all have not already read it, is report from the DOJ via the FBI called HANDGUN WOUNDING FACTORS AND EFFECTIVENESS written by Special Agent UREY W. PATRICK. Although written some time ago, my understanding from those in the terminal ballistics field I have spoken with, the essential take home messages are still totally valid. If you have not read this, it's a must read for sure. My favorite line from this report:

    "Thousands of books, movies and television shows have educated the general population that when shot, one is supposed to fall down." Clearly, this agent has a sense of humor...

    Download report here:

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

    Stay safe...
    - Will

    Performance/Fitness Advice For the Tactical Community

    www.OptimalSWAT.com

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

  • #2
    You want a real MAN Stopper

    Hoping to get picked up when I return from Iraq

    Comment


    • #3
      hmmm jury's still out. show us the face and body and we'll decide!
      Perseverate In Pugna

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Blkside View Post
        You want a real MAN Stopper
        Also known as the worlds smallest handcuff.
        - Will

        Performance/Fitness Advice For the Tactical Community

        www.OptimalSWAT.com

        General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

        www.BrinkZone.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by WillBrink View Post
          "Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs—considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available—Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream."
          When the heart is destroyed, you have about 10-15 seconds to live. This guy lived 4 minutes after the shooting stopped. I'm betting their interpretation of "center mass" is a bit different than mine. Let's see the autopsy.......
          Did I fire six shots, or only five?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by K40 View Post
            When the heart is destroyed, you have about 10-15 seconds to live. This guy lived 4 minutes after the shooting stopped. I'm betting their interpretation of "center mass" is a bit different than mine. Let's see the autopsy.......
            Seems a fair question, but regardless, the major issue is, people can take a lot more damage then most realize and still fight. Handgun rnds in standard duty loads simply make poor "man stoppers" and the there's no lack of data and examples to show it. I just thought the above was on of the more interesting (17 rnds of .40 anyplace in the torso one would hope would put someone down...), but the DOJ report via the FBI is the better read. If anyone has contacts on that forum, etc, might be interesting to here "the rest of the story" as they say.
            - Will

            Performance/Fitness Advice For the Tactical Community

            www.OptimalSWAT.com

            General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

            www.BrinkZone.com

            Comment


            • #7
              That one doesnt belong to me... its a google picture... but that kills 90% of men who fall into that trap.
              Hoping to get picked up when I return from Iraq

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Blkside View Post
                That one doesnt belong to me... its a google picture... but that kills 90% of men who fall into that trap.
                Been there, done that. It's a trap! My GF says to me this morning "If you would build me a box, I could grow vegetables in it and save us some money."

                I responded "If I could build my own box, what would I need you for?"

                She failed to see the humor....
                - Will

                Performance/Fitness Advice For the Tactical Community

                www.OptimalSWAT.com

                General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

                www.BrinkZone.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Headshots, folks, headshots.
                  Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                  I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

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                  • #10
                    I've read that article before and the officer I believe was hit four times, and I think in the midst of an all out firefight with the adrenaline, trying to find cover, watch yourself, watch the suspect, the extreme stress, headshots are not the first thing on one's mind, but hitting the largest most visible part is probably the easiest to do.
                    Moooooooooooo, I'm a goat

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                    • #11
                      was Palmer a Zombie
                      If your going to be a Bear you might as well be a GRIZZLY


                      Looking for Guidance feel free to assist me in my search............

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JSD73 View Post
                        I've read that article before and the officer I believe was hit four times, and I think in the midst of an all out firefight with the adrenaline, trying to find cover, watch yourself, watch the suspect, the extreme stress, headshots are not the first thing on one's mind, but hitting the largest most visible part is probably the easiest to do.
                        True, there is that.

                        The will to survive is an amazing thing. People have survived horrendous injuries because they refused to quit. On the other hand, people have died from little more than flesh wounds because they had it in their mind that if they were hit, they were dead and they gave up.
                        Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                        I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Amen that on the will to survive brother.

                          No matter what, I am going home after shift....that's all there is to it.

                          It is an incredible story that the turd survived for that long but how often do we hear or see that....IMHO, way too often, I mean look at ol' fiddy cent...shot 9 times? Still around and a millionaire to boot....I mean...wtf?!!
                          Moooooooooooo, I'm a goat

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                          • #14
                            You can't kill dirt.

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                            • #15
                              ROFL!!!!! Good call Mitchell

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