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  • Civilian Legal H&K 416?

    To answer a question presented in the "Big Thread," as to the availability of the H&K 416 on the civilian market:

    From ToddG, Moderator on M4Carbine.net:

    "Spoke to a very reliable source today who informed me that the plan to bring a civilian-legal US-manufactured H&K 416 to market has been "accelerated." In fact, there will be samples available at the SHOT Show in Orlando (Jan'09).

    The sample guns will actually be manufactured in Germany, but will be built to the US specification.

    More as I learn it."


    For those of you who don't know what an H&K 416 even IS, here's the fact sheet:



    It's basically a piston-driven M4. Is it radically different than anything else on the market? No. Is it an H&K? Yes. And that's why so many people want one...

    Here's my prediction. H&K, like it did with the G36/SL8, will release a neutered, castrated, "Saiga-like" rifle for the "civilian" population, based on the H&K 416 rifle. It will probably look like the California-legal AR-15.

    H&K COULD just send over complete uppers. This would allow us to attach US made complete lowers (which have more than enough US parts) and that would make us all happy, as well as cure some headaches on their part by not messing with importation of firearms.

    Of course, that would be too simple... So, instead, they are probably going to re-engineer the upper and lower so that they will ONLY mate to each other, and not to Mil-Spec lowers. This will force owners to use only the castrated lowers that they provide, and create a whole new aftermarket for conversions.

    Here's the H&K G36 rifle:



    Here's the "civilian" version of the G36, the SL8:



    And here's what your SL8 can look like after spending $1500 on the conversion. (This one was mine.)




    If H&K really supported the civilian sector, they would ship us 416 complete uppers, as they are completely legal in the US. Let's see what route they take, if any...
    Last edited by jwise; 12-02-2008, 09:07 AM.
    J. Wise

    AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

    "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

    Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

    sigpic

  • #2
    I presented that question.

    Thanks, jwise!

    Comment


    • #3
      If it was priced competitively then I would consider it. However we know it's going to rival Colt for pricing.
      "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
      8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

      Comment


      • #4
        Obligatory:
        http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...d-we-hate-you/

        Comment


        • #5
          Here's how my friend and I bought our HK416's.

          You CAN find them at ridiculously elevated prices on Gunbroker and other gun auctions web sites, but the bidding starts at around $3500.00 for the upper, buffer spring and a single 30 round HK magazine.

          Then of course, if you get the short barrel, you will have to pay the $200.00 tax stamp if you want to put it on a lower. (Unless you already own a short barrel AR15.)

          However, the HK416 was only $1500.00 for police departments & other government entities when we bought ours. (I think this was two years ago, give or take a few months.)

          So my buddy and I each gave our chief the cash for the weapon, he purchsed two of them, the department kept the full-auto lowers (we can't own them anway) and we get the uppers. (Both of us already had SBR's but I went ahead and got a new lower and paid for another tax stamp.)

          Now, not many chiefs or sheriffs will do something like this. But it never hurts to ask.

          I have to say, I have not had a single malfunction with this weapon yet.

          Not saying it can never happen. It's man made after all so it WILL fail at some point, but it is far more reliable than my Colt or my Bushmaster.

          I agree that much of the HK mystique comes from good marketing. But they DO make good kit most of the time. (Minues the VP70 and the G36.)

          I am looking forward to the HK417 which is chambered in .308 but has the same operating system.

          I was considering the M14 and I still like that weapon but this way I don't need to learn another new system.

          Just my thought.

          Rev

          Comment


          • #6
            I'll just by a well made, standard configuration AR/M-4gery and not get a cool toy just because it is new.

            Comment


            • #7
              My biggest fear would be replacement parts. I've heard horror stories from LE agencies about HK customer service, can you imagine what it would be like for a individual citizen?

              HK doesn't even offer replacement magazine springs for their AR mags.

              I'll admit that I'd love to have one, but not with my hard earned money...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rev1 View Post
                I agree that much of the HK mystique comes from good marketing. But they DO make good kit most of the time. (Minues the VP70 and the G36.)

                Just curious as to what experience you have that puts the G36 in the "failure" category. After the AR and AK, it's probably the most prevalent service rifle in use by non-3rd-world countries.

                Comment


                • #9
                  In the event of a ban, good luck getting replacement parts for it. If you want AK reliability in a 5.56 platform, Bushmaster manufactures a gas piston AR. http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm...A3F16M4-GP.asp

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by junior300 View Post
                    Just curious as to what experience you have that puts the G36 in the "failure" category. After the AR and AK, it's probably the most prevalent service rifle in use by non-3rd-world countries.
                    It's been documented. Basically, the receivers crack and melt.
                    J. Wise

                    AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                    "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                    Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      EH, not impressed by the HK416. Replacement parts are going to be hard to find, and as Jwise said, the stuff with be HK only compatible.

                      I'll stick with LWRC if I want a piston upper...
                      “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

                      "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by justhomp View Post
                        I'll stick with LWRC if I want a piston upper...
                        My patience is running thin w/ them. I wouldn't recommend ANYONE to become involved with that company. I ordered my rifle in March of '05. I have YET to receive a working product, but have received and sent back and forth a couple.


                        EDIT: I have finally received a working upper from LWRC, and I am very satisfied. They tried very hard, and were able to really come over over the top to make this particular unhappy customer very satisfied.
                        Last edited by jwise; 01-16-2009, 03:34 PM.
                        J. Wise

                        AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                        "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                        Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here's my prediction. H&K, like it did with the G36/SL8, will release a neutered, castrated, "Saiga-like" rifle for the "civilian" population, based on the H&K 416 rifle. It will probably look like the California-legal AR-15.
                          Wouldn't surprise me even a bit. HK could make a total turd, set the price sky-high, and they'll still make a killing off of all the fanboys.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            junior300-
                            Just curious as to what experience you have that puts the G36 in the "failure" category. After the AR and AK, it's probably the most prevalent service rifle in use by non-3rd-world countries.
                            Junior,

                            I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think you have the CETME, HK G3/91 (Stamped metal receiver design) confused with the plastic fantastic design of the G-36.
                            Forti Fors Bona

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              junior300,

                              HK91/HKG3 - both good battle rifles. Despite being heavy as a Buick.

                              G36 is a "good enough" gun.

                              But I don't believe in settling for "good enough" firearms.

                              As far as the HK416 goes, I can't imagine that Larry Vickers would endorse a piece of junk.

                              Rev

                              Comment

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