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Offensive/Defensive Weapons

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  • 10-19
    replied
    Originally posted by dainv View Post
    Thank you ParkCop....

    You pointed out the essential points....not ALL the learning takes place out of the classroom or out of the car.

    There is an explorer in our group who is extremely gung ho and while it's good to be excited and endeavor toward this career, his excitement about this has caused friction. He was handed Sgt. stripes by a previous advisor simply because he had the most ride-alongs...not because of his proficiency in the knowledge of law enforcement. He tends to talk and act as though his stripes apply to the patrol officers.

    He has been seen in the community in his explorer uniform when not doing a planned function or ride-along.

    Almost all the officers in the dept. choose not to have him in their car because he has a thing about touching everything in the car...moving radars, cameras, etc.

    In connection to this discussion directly, he has a strong desire to have offensive/defensive weapons and has asked about it repeatedly. He wears his duty belt to represent the usage of all of it without the actual items.

    He concerns most in the department that his teenage mind will over-ride common sense one of these days and he will act as the police if the opportunity presents itself, causing himself danger as well as others.
    That kids needs to be disciplined and even afterwards most likely kicked out. That kind of action should simply not be tolerated. I myself have "explorer stripes" and have never done any of those things. Sounds like this kid has a sense of entitlement when he shouldn't.

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  • ParkCop 23
    replied
    The village needs to get rid of that guy, He is gonna cause them some bad press if he keeps it up.

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  • dainv
    replied
    Thank you ParkCop....

    You pointed out the essential points....not ALL the learning takes place out of the classroom or out of the car.

    There is an explorer in our group who is extremely gung ho and while it's good to be excited and endeavor toward this career, his excitement about this has caused friction. He was handed Sgt. stripes by a previous advisor simply because he had the most ride-alongs...not because of his proficiency in the knowledge of law enforcement. He tends to talk and act as though his stripes apply to the patrol officers.

    He has been seen in the community in his explorer uniform when not doing a planned function or ride-along.

    Almost all the officers in the dept. choose not to have him in their car because he has a thing about touching everything in the car...moving radars, cameras, etc.

    In connection to this discussion directly, he has a strong desire to have offensive/defensive weapons and has asked about it repeatedly. He wears his duty belt to represent the usage of all of it without the actual items.

    He concerns most in the department that his teenage mind will over-ride common sense one of these days and he will act as the police if the opportunity presents itself, causing himself danger as well as others.

    Leave a comment:


  • ParkCop 23
    replied
    oh and dont make fun of my spelling errors i know there are plenty!

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  • ParkCop 23
    replied
    WOW what an interesting thread, I have enjoyed seeing what all of you have had to say, As a former explorer I sure I sounded allot like your guys. Allot has been said on this topic. So im going to bring up some points that have not been mentioned.

    You are not a paid employeed by the municipality your volunteering with. By willingly participating in the program your are willingly putting yourself in the line to be hurt injured etc. (as any other activity/sports) While police officers also go into that line of work willingly, they are duty bound to put themselves into tight situations (but at a last resort) but thats why they go through an Academy, FTO program, etc. There is allot more to Defensive Tactics, Use of Force items then what is brought up in an 8 hour course that you would recieve. Police officers have a duty to act! Thats why they carry those items they are there not only for the defense of oneself but for that of the public as well. If you are given these "weapons" and are on duty as a volunteer during an event, and something happens people are going to expect you to act. You have no mandate or duty to act, than that of a average citizen. Even though you are wearing a uniform you are just a citizen. If you do act and f' it up here comes the law suits. Someone said how are we supposed to learn if we never are allowed out of the car.... do you think police officers only learn during the FTO program? The academy which you all DONT have sets the foundations that the FTO program builds upon. The program is to not teach you all how to be the POLICE. It teaches you what to expect from being the police. You can do that in a class room. Ride alongs are just so you can see what a day in the life of a police officer is about, when its slow when its fast, daily routines, etc.

    I tried not to repeat what everyone else said. comment back let me know if you understand what im saying, and if it makes sense to you guys! oh and LIABILITY LIABILITY LIABILITY!!!! Whoever said that you are soooo right, Thats the name of the game boys get used to it now.

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  • C-11
    replied
    Well......

    *************************************
    Last edited by C-11; 10-02-2007, 07:54 PM.

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  • TheOrteganator
    replied
    Explorers with some kind of defensive weapon has the major positive point of giving explorers and cadets a last resort to getting out of a tight situation. There's also the negative point that quite a few explorers and cadets can't be trusted with any kind of defensive weapon, and then it becomes a liability issue. If our department decided to give us defensive weapons, I am sad to say that half of the post would be gone because we wouldn't be able to trust them. Even after that, though... do you really know who can be trusted to make good decisions?

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  • mlhelleckson
    replied
    . .
    Last edited by mlhelleckson; 02-04-2013, 06:01 PM.

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  • TheOrteganator
    replied
    Originally posted by mlhelleckson View Post
    (and their insurance policy).
    And that would be why my faith still lies in my nice heavy flashlight, and the trusty radio that brings friends with guns.

    Luckily, I have never been in a situation where the flashlight has been needed, and I've only had to call for cover twice, both times while patrolling our downtown area during the evening. Stupid drunks...

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  • mlhelleckson
    replied
    . .
    Last edited by mlhelleckson; 02-04-2013, 03:32 PM.

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  • TheOrteganator
    replied
    We have no defensive weapons of any kind, but even if we did BSA couldn't do anything, we're seperated from them.

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  • mlhelleckson
    replied
    . .
    Last edited by mlhelleckson; 02-04-2013, 06:01 PM.

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  • Redders
    replied
    I'm unfamiliar with Explorers as most depts in my area are to small to have as such. However we have regular's who are high school kids that do ride alongs.

    I guess my response to why an 18 year old Explorer isn't given defensive tools is a question. Are you given the power of arrest? If not, then there is no reason for you to carry such defensive or offensive weapon, even though you are in some type of uniform you are there in a capacity of learning through observing not learning through participation. I say that lightly because often my ride alongs will assist me with small mundane things like measurements of a crash scene, listing missing items from a theft, things of that nature, but at no point when someone is going to take the ride do they take an active role in that aspect of my job.

    Leave a comment:


  • SpokaneExplorer
    replied
    Originally posted by StudChris View Post
    What you said is some officers can't fight, that's why they have firearms.

    If you're put in a situation where you need to go hand to hand (or with your spray or taser), and you use your firearm because you can't fight, you're definately going to lose you're job, and you may find yourself in prison.

    If you're put in a situation where you need to use your firearms, and you decide to go hands on instead, you're not going to lose your life.

    Either way you're screwed. Officers DO NOT have firearms because they can't fight.
    I did not mean just because your in a fight you have to shoot the guy but in certain situations if you are getting your a** kicked enough that you can't recover and need to shoot the guy you have the option to if justifyed.
    And you mean to tell me that every cop out there is a good hands on fighter? Just because people have good training doesn't make them a good fighter whether they are a cop or not. You guys are given a gun for protection if needed. If Departments felt that all their cops were excellent fighters they probably would not have their guys carry firearms.
    It all depends on a use of force level here in Spokane. No body wants to kill anyone but I thought the goal for Law-Enforcement was to protect the public and go home to their familys each night.
    I am just an explorer and lack the years of experience so correct me if im wrong.
    Last edited by SpokaneExplorer; 05-07-2007, 01:39 AM.

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  • TheOrteganator
    replied
    Originally posted by casaundra View Post
    if your an explorer,and alredy curios to bear arms,s l o w down.le is not all about guns,tasers etc.its alot more exstinsive than that.if you can talk your way out of somthing,now thats real experiance and moxy.as someone else mentioned,if you are an explorer,you probably have your mentor very near by.good luck in your pursuit.an explorer needs a mentor.thats why its called exploring.be safe
    First of all.... what did you just say??

    Second, from what I got out of it you're suggesting that instead of using any kind of a defensive weapon, talking your way out of any situation will work? Try again. If someone is swinging at me, charging me, drawing a weapon on me, or anything else like that, I'm smart enough to react with force if it is safe in that situation, or try to remove myself from that situation if possible. Talking your way out is always the best option when it works, but it is not applicable in all situations.

    Leave a comment:

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