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Policy on Explorers with CCW

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  • Policy on Explorers with CCW

    I assume that explorers cant carry any firearms even w/ a CCW permit. I got mine on Friday. I dont plan on carrying it much. But got more for the fact that i have the gun, I might as well have a carry permit for it.

    Just kinda wondering what some other post's rules for this are. In my post i know it will not be allowed for we cant wear uniforms and can only ride for 4 hours per ride and cant get out at all.

    Take care and be safe.
    Once in a while ya get shown the light in the strangest of places if ya look at it right..

  • #2
    Interesting post!

    For the most part, I bet most agencies have NOT addressed this in their R&R manual. In fact, because the cut of age for Explorers is 21 in most places, many agencies do not have Explorers applying for a CCW because they are under 21. I'll be 21 in April and have considered applying for a CCW. Then again, I'm not sure I have reason to have one at this point in my life. I will probably wait until I complete the academy...

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    • #3
      I believe that in Indiana one can obtain a CCW at age 19. I know there have been some issues with Indiana CCWs being good in Kentucky because of this. Kentucky has reciprocity with Indiana for CCW, however Kentucky has a minimum age of 21. This has caused some confusion.

      IMO, I don't see how an Explorer post could legally restrict you from obtaining a CCW if the state law says you can do so.

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      • #4
        What is the purpose of an explorer carrying a CCW? It is against LFL policies to carry ANY type of weapon, and a huge liability for the department.

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        • #5
          The age limit for CCW in Indiana is 18. Mine just came in the mail Friday. Im interested in what my adviser has to say about this.

          <small>[ 03-10-2003, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: K9_Explorer ]</small>
          Once in a while ya get shown the light in the strangest of places if ya look at it right..

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          • #6
            Well i see some some purpose to a Explorer haveing a CCW. I mean i have no problem not carrying. Some post carry OC.

            For example if im working sercurity at the county fair and were directing traffic...its dark and some one sees BDU's and the yellow uniform shirt ect, and decides to that there really going to harm me. What do i do? Just get my arse kicked? No way...thats just not going to happen..

            Sorry if i kinda seem kind of ..harsh..ect. but i just got home from seeing my uncle near death lieing there moaning....kinda emotional at this point..

            Keep safe out there!
            Once in a while ya get shown the light in the strangest of places if ya look at it right..

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            • #7
              I don't think too many people here have a problem with trained, licensed people carrying CCWs, but I don't see any department that would allow explorers (or other unsworn field personnel for that matter) carry weapons while they're working.

              It's a simple liability issue. Explorers are representatives of the police department when in uniform and must follow their rules. Those rules state that only sworn personnel may carry firearms on duty. If you feel that you're going to get assaulted while directing traffic at a fair and need a firearm for protection, maybe you should find something else to do.

              If you want to carry when you're not on explorer duty, that's your right. But whenever you put on your uniform, you must abide by the policies of the department, whatever they may be. I would take serious issue with any agency that would let explorers carry deadly weapons while on duty.

              <small>[ 03-10-2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: PatrickM98 ]</small>

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              • #8
                Patrick,

                Good word. I could not agree more. Yes, some Explorers ARE responsible enough to carry and have no problems, BUT as a rule NONE should carry.

                Godside

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                • #9
                  It's not as much of a responsibility issue as it is a liability issue. It's not just explorers either. Departments that have non-sworn personnel in the field (such as criminalists or community service officers) have VERY strict policies that outline what weapons they can and cannot carry.

                  For example, CSOs in Lexington (called Safety Officers) carry no weapons, not even OC. This isn't done because they aren't responsible, it's done because of liability and training issues. When you start to carry weapons that can be used against the public, it becomes necessary for the department to thoroughly train the employee in its use. If not properly trained, a lawsuit could cost the department a great deal of money.

                  So even if all explorers were responsible adults, it STILL would not be in the best interest of the department to allow them to carry firearms.

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                  • #10
                    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do i do? Just get my arse kicked? No way...thats just not going to happen.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you're going to pull out a gun and bust a cap in their ***? You'll only end up in jail for murder, and have your department sued. You are an explorer, which is an observer , not a cop. If you want to carry a gun while off duty, fine thats your right. But while in uniform, there is NO reason for you to carry ANY weapon. You are not trained to make split second decisions, you probably don't know anything about the use of force, and you have not been through hours of rigorous training in shooting. If anyone threatens you while working a detail, radio in for help. There should always be an officer around.

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                    • #11
                      Our policy states we may not carry firearms while on duty.

                      I would not want even a responsible explorer carrying a firearm, unless they have shown a higher than average level of responsibility, passed a psychological examination, gone through a DEEP background check, and received hours and hours of professional training. (Kinda like what cops have to go through to get to carry THEIR guns).

                      Whenever a police officer kills someone, even if they were shot first, the family usually sues the PD and officer anyway. The cop usually wins, but there's a huge hassle in that. It's an example of the intense scrutiny shootings are put under. You're not going to have much of a defense if you do have to shoot someone while on duty as an explorer. There's HUGE liability in that.

                      I doubt the other cops want their backup responding with guns unless they know that they've been through the same intense gun training they have. Imagine if someone did try to kick your *** and you shot & killed them. You'd be a murderer, go to jail, PD & your family would probably be sued, explorer program might be suspended, and there goes your future as a cop.

                      Officers go through a tremendous amount of training over a long period of time. They know general use of force theory. They know how to apply UOF theory to actual situations. They're proficient in using their weapons. They know their agency's exact policy on use of force. They've been exposed to many scenarios where the decision on what level of force to use is pretty shady. We just don't have the training or experience.

                      Additionally, that would be aweful public relations. The PD having teens going around town with guns...

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                      • #12
                        </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AnthonyM83:
                        <strong>Whenever a police officer kills someone, even if they were shot first, the family usually sues the PD and officer anyway. The cop usually wins, but there's a huge hassle in that. It's an example of the intense scrutiny shootings are put under. You're not going to have much of a defense if you do have to shoot someone while on duty as an explorer. There's HUGE liability in that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, the more accurate statement would be the cop usually is not held financially responsible. Most often, even the most cut-and-dried cases that favor the officer and department are settled out of court, the settlement amount being much less than the cost of aggressively fighting the case.

                        You are correct in that one should not underestimate the difference that selection and training can make in a lawsuit. Even well-trained officers, who follow the law and department policy to the letter, can still lose a lawsuit, especially with a skilled attorney and not-so-skilled jury

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                        • #13
                          Our pst does NOT allow us to carry any type of fire arms. You even have to be 16 and take a handcuff class too carry handcuffs. We have to wear a vest, but since explorers are stll youths, there will be more people, eespecially other youths talking with them. Just what happenes when someone asks to see their new toy? I highly doubt that any post would let explorer's carry even pepper spray. Too much liability, and there really is no uuse for it
                          Exploring, The Bright Future of Law Enforcement!

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                          • #14
                            Obviously Explorers don't have the proper training to carry a gun on-duty. It could even become a problem off-duty if the gun was used and somebody figured out that you were an Explorer, no matter how right you were.

                            But how can any of you compare a gun to pepper spray? One is a deadly weapon, the other is a minor irritant. My post required us to take pepper spray training (including being sprayed) and carry it for self defense.

                            Mike
                            "Bones heal. Chicks dig scars. And the United States of America has the best doctor-to-daredevil ratio in the world!" -- Captain Lance Murdoch, The Simpsons

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                            • #15
                              I can

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