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  • Ka-Bar

    Anybody using this knife? How do you like it? Have you had to use it?


    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/DBA814-44753-1260.html
    81
    This knife (Ka-Bar TDK)
    20.99%
    17
    Boot knife
    4.94%
    4
    Folding knife
    62.96%
    51
    Other
    3.70%
    3
    None
    7.41%
    6

  • #2
    At this point I carry a folding auto, but I am thinking about making this purchase, my Sgt. has one and he loves it.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't personally like fixed-blade knives for on duty use. I've carried a stainless Spyderco Endura (locking blade clip-it knife) during my career and use it quite frequently.

      Something to think about...

      A knife in LE tends to be more of a tool than a weapon. Can it be used as a weapon of opportunity? Absolutely. But, that's not why I carry it. I carry it to cut seatbelts and scrape paint transfer samples from hit-skips and about a million other things. I can articulate that a good locking-blade knife is a vital tool on the job...not a weapon. It's not a weapon because I've never been formally trained in its use as a weapon. My department has no policy regarding carrying and usage of a knife as a weapon. If I happen to use it duirng a life or death struggle as a weapon, it was a weapon of opportunity. When you go to fixed-blade knives, it's tougher to articulate that is a tool rather than a weapon. With that ka-bar, I don't know that I could convince someone that's anything other than a weapon.

      Look at your department policies and your training before you choose a knife to carry on duty.
      "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
      -Friedrich Nietzsche

      Comment


      • #4
        A knife in LE tends to be more of a tool than a weapon. Can it be used as a weapon of opportunity? Absolutely. But, that's not why I carry it. I carry it to cut seatbelts and scrape paint transfer samples from hit-skips and about a million other things. I can articulate that a good locking-blade knife is a vital tool on the job...not a weapon.
        ABSOLUTELY!!! I carry a 4" folder, but use the sledgehammer and wrecking bar kept in the trunk MUCH more often.
        I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

        Douglas MacArthur

        Comment


        • #5
          I carry the ka-bar tdi on my duty belt, nice and concealed....i also carry the ka-bar tdi ankle setup.....oh and sometimes a folding knife too.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bing_Oh
            I don't personally like fixed-blade knives for on duty use. I've carried a stainless Spyderco Endura (locking blade clip-it knife) during my career and use it quite frequently.

            Something to think about...

            A knife in LE tends to be more of a tool than a weapon. Can it be used as a weapon of opportunity? Absolutely. But, that's not why I carry it. I carry it to cut seatbelts and scrape paint transfer samples from hit-skips and about a million other things. I can articulate that a good locking-blade knife is a vital tool on the job...not a weapon. It's not a weapon because I've never been formally trained in its use as a weapon. My department has no policy regarding carrying and usage of a knife as a weapon. If I happen to use it duirng a life or death struggle as a weapon, it was a weapon of opportunity. When you go to fixed-blade knives, it's tougher to articulate that is a tool rather than a weapon. With that ka-bar, I don't know that I could convince someone that's anything other than a weapon.

            Look at your department policies and your training before you choose a knife to carry on duty.
            Who do you feel it necessary to articulate that a knife is a tool to and why? Are you talking about a grand jury? The reason this kabar knife was made was as a last resort weapon in a gun grab attempt. it's meant to be worn so that you can grab it with your weak hand while protecting your gun with your strong hand. I've never been trained to smash a rock against a dirtball's skull but if it's going to save my life i don't care. I agree with you that for the most part a knife is a "tool". But I don't think you would use this kabar as such, and still keep your folding knife for that. In the academy we had knife training and practiced on eachother with red knives. I think they make a training knife now that shocks you when it touches in order to provide more realistic training. But I digress...I think a knife can be a tool or a weapon, who cares what people label it?

            Comment


            • #7
              http://www.shocknife.com/index.html a little off topic but here's that shockknife i mentioned. training would be a little more...ahem...interesting...with these

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rookie2812
                Who do you feel it necessary to articulate that a knife is a tool to and why? Are you talking about a grand jury? The reason this kabar knife was made was as a last resort weapon in a gun grab attempt. it's meant to be worn so that you can grab it with your weak hand while protecting your gun with your strong hand. I've never been trained to smash a rock against a dirtball's skull but if it's going to save my life i don't care. I agree with you that for the most part a knife is a "tool". But I don't think you would use this kabar as such, and still keep your folding knife for that. In the academy we had knife training and practiced on eachother with red knives. I think they make a training knife now that shocks you when it touches in order to provide more realistic training. But I digress...I think a knife can be a tool or a weapon, who cares what people label it?
                If you use a knife as a weapon, you had better be able to articulate either your training in using it as a weapon or that it was carried as a tool and used as a weapon of opportunity. That articulation will be vital in a Grand Jury, a jury in Common Pleas court, a jury in a civil action against you, a civilian review board, or an IA investigation regarding use of force.

                Each and every device I carry as a weapon on duty I have received training in and have shown proficiency in their use. I know where those weapons fit in my department's use of force continuum, the types of situations where using each weapon is approprate, and the limitations of those weapons.

                I cannot say the same about my knife. I've received no formal training in using my knife as a weapon and I've never been required to show any degree of proficiency in using it as such. A knife is not mentioned in my use of force continuum. My department, in fact, has no policy regarding carrying or using knives on duty.

                If I carried my knife on duty as a weapon and used it as such in a critical incident, I will have opened myself up to potential policy and procedure violations and painted a bullseye on my forehead for any defense or personal injury lawyer with a pulse. How easily do you think such a lawyer could paint a picture to a jury of an untrained officer carrying and using an unauthorized deadly weapon in the course of his duties?

                Like I said, my knife is a tool. Like your rock to the side of a bad guy's head, it could also be a weapon of opportunity, but that's not the reason I carry it. If you're carrying a knife specifically as a weapon, it's in your best interest to be formally trained with it as such and to have a department policy in place that addresses the carrying and use of a knife as a weapon. If not, there's an excellent chance that you will be hung out to dry by your department and a bad guy or his surviving relatives will be living in your house after you use that knife on someone.
                Last edited by Bing_Oh; 12-24-2006, 07:12 AM.
                "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                -Friedrich Nietzsche

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hence this knife, the Randall Fireman. It has that non-offensive sounding name and doesn't look too menacing. The thing is one tough knife though and could probably pop the top off of a 57 Chevy. The darn thing is like a sharp crow bar.

                  "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

                  For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bing_Oh
                    I don't personally like fixed-blade knives for on duty use. I've carried a stainless Spyderco Endura (locking blade clip-it knife) during my career and use it quite frequently.

                    Something to think about...

                    A knife in LE tends to be more of a tool than a weapon. Can it be used as a weapon of opportunity? Absolutely. But, that's not why I carry it. I carry it to cut seatbelts and scrape paint transfer samples from hit-skips and about a million other things. I can articulate that a good locking-blade knife is a vital tool on the job...not a weapon. It's not a weapon because I've never been formally trained in its use as a weapon. My department has no policy regarding carrying and usage of a knife as a weapon. If I happen to use it duirng a life or death struggle as a weapon, it was a weapon of opportunity. When you go to fixed-blade knives, it's tougher to articulate that is a tool rather than a weapon. With that ka-bar, I don't know that I could convince someone that's anything other than a weapon.

                    Look at your department policies and your training before you choose a knife to carry on duty.
                    Right on the money. I will probably buy it. But I risk the possiblity that down the road, I may not be able to carry it on duty. Currently my dept. is ok with it, but that could change as could the dept. that I am employed with. I agree that a fixed blade knife is definately a weapon, but the Ka-Bar was designed for use as a last resort weapon. It is no different than any lethal force "tool" that we carry on our duty belts, or concealed in various places on our body and in our patrol units. Besides, I carry a folding knife in my pocket and usually have a Leatherman in my rig for the "tool" purpose. Still, I will probably buy it. Did anybody download the demonstration on the link that I supplied? Very informative.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I fully concur with Bing Oh about being able to differentiate between a defensive tool and a working knife. There are things that are used appropriately under the circumstances that will not be trained. We actually refer to those techniques as untrained but justified. Having a self defense tool does not change the need to be trained in it's use. The TDI was designed as a "last ditch defense" and as such probably would be understood. But if you were perceptive enough to carry a "last ditch tool" you can't really claim it was a tool of opportunity. Call it what it is, get the training necessary. How many seatbelts actually get cut anyway?
                      Jerry
                      "If all else fails, stop using all else!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As stated before by Rookie2812, deadly force is deadly force, I have not been "trained" on how to clobber someone with a 2D cell mag light if they are trying to kill me, or use my vehicle if absolutely necessary. Why should a knife be any different?
                        I carry a Small TDI on my duty belt.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pressm4n
                          As stated before by Rookie2812, deadly force is deadly force, I have not been "trained" on how to clobber someone with a 2D cell mag light if they are trying to kill me, or use my vehicle if absolutely necessary. Why should a knife be any different?
                          I carry a Small TDI on my duty belt.
                          Doesn't anyone teach the phrase "weapon of opportunity" anymore? That's the difference between carrying and using a dedicated weapon and any of the tools or objects in the environment during a critical incident.

                          And actually, Pressm4n, I'll bet you HAVE been trained how to use a maglight as a weapon. Are you ASP or baton certified? Then you're trained and certified in using an impact weapon, aren't you? There's no real difference in how you use a straight baton or an ASP and how you'd use a flashlight as an impact weapon. The same rules (no-strike zones in non-deadly force situations and such) apply.

                          You can carry and use whatever you want. You're all big boys and girls and can make your own decisions on that. I'm just encouraging you to remember CYA. If you're carrying and using items...especially items that can be construed as deadly weapons...that you're uncertified in using, then you may find yourself very lonely with no support from your department and surrounded by lawyers with dollar signs dancing before their eyes if you kill or injure some dirtbag using those items.
                          "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                          -Friedrich Nietzsche

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Carrying a knife as a weapon or tool or toothpick is a good idea. If it comes down to you actually needing to use it something has gone terribly wrong and the phrase, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" comes into play. Just my 2 cents
                            R.I.P. Officer Wayne McLaughlin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pressm4n
                              As stated before by Rookie2812, deadly force is deadly force, I have not been "trained" on how to clobber someone with a 2D cell mag light if they are trying to kill me, or use my vehicle if absolutely necessary. Why should a knife be any different?
                              I carry a Small TDI on my duty belt.
                              It's called Vicarious Liability. If there is training available and you choose to not get trained, thats called Deliberate Indiffence. These are terms that police officers need to become intimately familiar with. Not because you aen't expected to do what you have to do to save your life, but because you want to save your career at the same time.
                              Jerry
                              "If all else fails, stop using all else!"

                              Comment

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