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  • #16
    PAVA or whatever they're calling it, OC II. I have no idea what this stuff does, or what's cool or useful about it. Don't forget the Cap-Stun people have some kind of OC with 0% OC in it, as well, that's supposed to be hell on earth. So far, only the military carries it.
    N. A. Corbier
    Moderator, SecurityInfoWatch Forums
    Visiting Commando Leader

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    • #17
      I have to use it, we don't have tasers so that won't be an issue (I wish we did have them though, it'd make working here so much easier) What they gave us was a 1oz Cap-Stun weapon systems standard duty 'z-305'.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by kcolg
        I have to use it, we don't have tasers so that won't be an issue (I wish we did have them though, it'd make working here so much easier) What they gave us was a 1oz Cap-Stun weapon systems standard duty 'z-305'.
        Does that stuff work? I've seen their clips, and it just looked like OC to me. Their claims indicate that its like some kind of super OC which takes anything down.

        I want to see their marketing rep hit a grizzly with it, and see if it works.
        N. A. Corbier
        Moderator, SecurityInfoWatch Forums
        Visiting Commando Leader

        If you work in private security, feel free to register on Officer.com's sister site for security, forums.securityinfowatch.com

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        • #19
          If it's the same stuff they sprayed in our face during the academy, hell yes that freaking stuff works.



          (I to would like to see a Sales rep do that lol).

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          • #20
            We carry MK-IV but are waiting for Fox to come out with a foam product.

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            • #21
              I carry Fox, and I wouldn't use anything else. We did our certification outside in February in Ohio with six inches of snow on the ground. After being hit with it, people were putting thier faces in the snow. The pain wasn't so bad, but I could not open my eyes at all. It makes fighting really difficult.
              "oderint dum metuant: Let them hate us so long as they fear us." Caligula

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              • #22
                I see the majority like the fox labs OC. However, fox is only 2% OC compared to other OC's that claim 17%. Why would the 17% OC not be better? Fox also states their product is 5.3 million s.h.u., where other company's do not give a rating for s.h.u. I am confused here, does anybody have any more info on this?

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                • #23
                  The percentage of OC doesn't do anything for heat. In my/our experience, the higher percentages only take longer to decon as you have to remove more active ingredient.

                  SHU is Scoville Heat Units. SHU is the measure of heat coming off an OC product and is the best measure of potency. We use Def-Tec First Defense, I believe it is a 10% solution. I believe it is rated somewhere between 400,000 and 500,000SHU. Fox and some of the newer products out there use a different mix of OC product and propellent and other items to increase the heat of their product. There are also new products which come pretty close to Fox's SHU ratings.

                  Without a doubt, Fox is the most potent hardest hitting stuff out there. Our First Defense has taken upwards of an hour to fully decon someone after it has been deployed. A local agency that uses Fox says that it routinely takes 10-15 minutes to decon after a deployment. Obviously, with Fox's heat, it will be more of a risk to officers when deployed and mean you need to take extra care to not be downwind of it. Interestingly, Fox also recommends using chemical suedecon(sp) wipe for best decontamination.

                  IF you go to Fox, be sure to get the literature and information from the maker about after effects on some people. If you don't, you might be a little frightened to see peeling skin and a severe sunburn on *some* fair skinned individuals.
                  Nobody ever wants to have to fight, but its a darn good idea for someone to know how.

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                  • #24
                    I carry Fox and can attest to the quicker decontamination. The last person I sprayed was deconed in 15 or 20 mins.

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                    • #25
                      I would go with Fox Labs...It definetly packs a punch!

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                      • #26
                        I carry FOX (5.3 million SHU of gitcher *** down, baby!)
                        "Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions."

                        "Carry daily. Apply sparingly."

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                        • #27
                          Anyone here ever use Vexor(15 Million SHU)? Some depts in the area have recently gone to it.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by uptownfed
                            Anyone here ever use Vexor(15 Million SHU)? Some depts in the area have recently gone to it.
                            I'm kinda interested in Vexor, as well, if nothing else than from a chemical standpoint. Its supposed to be pure capscain (However you spell it, the C in OC), without an oleoresin binder.

                            It sounds like they took the ingredient in "IcyHot" and put it into OC - eliminating the natural part of the OC. While MSI uses "This is food grade, natural, OC," as a selling point, CapStun's Vexor is the total opposite: Pure Capsicium, lab quality, instant irritant.
                            N. A. Corbier
                            Moderator, SecurityInfoWatch Forums
                            Visiting Commando Leader

                            If you work in private security, feel free to register on Officer.com's sister site for security, forums.securityinfowatch.com

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                            • #29
                              Yes , We use Vexor. And I can personally speak of it's potency!! I was "certified " with it 2 weeks ago. I had side effects for 36 hrs after being hit with it. Very nasty stuff!! The neat thing is when the chemical leaves the bottle, the stream twists like a vortex, so it work much better in the wind...This stuff is insane!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by chicubs
                                I've talked to some fellow deputies and have heard that the people who make the pepperball guns have come out with a an oc. Anyone know about that one?
                                I carry pepperball oc now. I've haven't had the chance to use it on a hobo yet, but I've sprayed myself with it just to see how it stands up to the all of the other stuff I've been hit with. I would rate it just under Freeze +P. I will never, ever, ever take another hit of +P again willingly as long as I live.
                                Feel safe at night.....Sleep with a COP.

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