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ASP - which side?

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  • ASP - which side?

    In the duty belt layout thread, this question was asked:

    Where do you place your ASP and/or spray in relation to your gun? Behind it or weak side?

    I was just wondering if there was any compelling reason to carry it weapon side vs. reaction side. I never got a clear answer in my training, and in talking locally, I'm still not getting any solid information. Any specifics or experience would be greatly appreciated.

    Does it make sense that by carrying the ASP opposite your firearm, you have a second form of deadly force if your firearm is being grabbed? (Not that that's the intended use, I realize).

    That's the best reason I've come up with, but I'm not sure if this argument holds water, and if it jibes with weapon retention training.
    Last edited by Resq14; 12-01-2003, 10:58 AM.
    All Gave Some - Some Gave All

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  • #2
    ive got my asp behind my gun and spray in front of my gun. i did it this way because im running out of room on my belt and thats the easiest place for me to access those tools. some guys like to cross draw the asp. its all about what youre comfortable with. theres no tactical reason behind it.
    "The American public will find it refreshing to see a Republican candidate, who's not a moralistic, sexually repressed, crusading hypocrite, who cruises airport men's rooms late at night."
    William Shatner

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    • #3
      ASP Carry

      I carry my baton on the reaction side.

      I changed from the weapon side due to difficulty re-holstering the baton in the extended position during an actual use. You must be able to reholster one-handed, without looking, in whatever carry method you choose. An additional concern of mine is that in the position I now carry, I can protect both my firearm and by baton with my elbows. If you carry behind the firearm, you cannot touch both weapons.

      However, as a certified ASP instructor, I would not advocate the practice of drawing the baton with the weapon hand if you choose to carry on the reaction side. Draw with the reaction hand and switch. Otherwise, you leave your firearm completly exposed, and the potential exists of having someone block your arm.

      Now I will add that the carry position may be altered by your holster for the baton. I use a Safariland baton holder. I find it carries the baton slightly higher than the ASP holder. Also, when I went with that particular carrier, ASP did not yet offer a holder that rotated (as they do now). I also carry my baton tip-up (which is contrary to most baton training). I do so because the bottom of my baton holder is open, and it sucks when your baton expands when you run, as they will do if the holder is open-ended.

      Hope this helps. Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense.

      Comment


      • #4
        When I carried the asp it was always weapons side, I liked it to go spray, asp, gun just like the use of force progession, the dept I am on now uses pr-24s so that is on my weak side took some getting used too.
        Happy to be here proud to serve

        "Well it appears this lock does not accept american express."

        Never trust fire fighters to point out a suspect.

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        • #5
          My baton will NEVER be on my gun side. I see it this way: if it's in front of the gun I have to draw my gun that much higher to get it out, thereby being cumbersome to get my gun into action, if I need my gun I will NOT want to wait; if its behind the gun I have to draw the ASP that much higher, also if it shifts forward the baton may block access to the grip of my pistol, it is also cumbersome for me to try to expand my baton from that position.

          I carry an Autolock in a Monadnock swivel holder designed for the Autolock. It is carried at about the 10o'clock position and at a 45* angle forward. In this position I can very easily draw it with either hand. I prefer to draw it crossdraw, however and expand it as I bring it across my body.

          Plus, with the angle on the holder like that, it looks extra bad***.

          edited to add: no matter where you carry your expandable baton, BUY A HINDI-CAP. It'll help keep your baton in your hand and make it easier to get it back should you drop it.
          Last edited by jeeper; 12-01-2003, 03:04 PM.
          Nobody ever wants to have to fight, but its a darn good idea for someone to know how.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ASP Carry

            Originally posted by GCPD1258
            I also carry my baton tip-up (which is contrary to most baton training). I do so because the bottom of my baton holder is open, and it sucks when your baton expands when you run, as they will do if the holder is open-ended.
            Whew! I thought this only happened to us up here!

            Take a vinyl liner from the screw cap of a 10/12 oz (500/600 ml) bottle of pop (washed, of course) and slip it into the bottom of your scabbard - it will hold your ASP from extending (now if only EVERYTHING that could expand could be held so easy - MY BAD! ) in such a situation, but can be pushed through and out if you re-holster in the extended position and easily (and, more importantly, cheaply!)replaced.
            #32936 - Royal Canadian Mounted Police - 1975-10-27 / 2010-12-29
            Proud Dad of #54266 - RCMP - 2007-02-12 to date
            RCMP Veterans Association - Regina Division member
            Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada - Associate (Retired) member
            "Smile" - no!

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            • #7
              Re: Expanding ASP/Hindi Baton Cap

              Good idea about the screw lid thing in the bottom of the holder. It would probably work with my holder. I have the Safariland one that swivels. Does the cap come out when you reholster extended?

              I don't know if I'll do that at this point anyway, since I have become so used to drawing the baton with the tip up. In fact, I think it has more economy of motion (I carry on the reaction side).

              Also, Reference the Hindi Baton cap. I have tried the Hindi Cap. While I agree that it fulfills its design purpose perfectly, I worry that you may lose most of your close-mode strikes, or at least lessen their effectiveness. ASP makes a similar product, but it is not nearly as big. I have not tried it yet, but I know close-mode strikes are still useful with the ASP cap.

              Comment


              • #8
                Baton

                I keep my baton on my weapon side but nearer to my buckle. The weapon is on my left hip...

                My theory is, I will never have my weapon and my ASP drawn at the same time.
                -SrA J Hughes
                United States Air Force
                Security Forces Patrolman
                -Defensor Fortis-

                -AMU Student: BA Criminal Justice

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                • #9
                  Prior to getting my taser, I always carried my ASP on my reaction side at about the 10:00 positon, directly in front of my radio. Now... I carry my taser in the same spot.
                  In law enforcement, the customer is ALWAYS wrong.

                  In God we trust. Everyone else is run through NCIC.

                  Sometimes there is justice. Sometimes there is just us.

                  I'd rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6.


                  The opinions given in my posts do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A thread from the past. Cool.

                    Originally posted by AirmanE3
                    I keep my baton on my weapon side but nearer to my buckle. The weapon is on my left hip...

                    My theory is, I will never have my weapon and my ASP drawn at the same time.
                    Good point. Still, I think if someone were grabbing for the gun, I'd like to have an impact tool opposite my firearm.

                    As far as Tasers replacing/supplementing ASPs/batons... we keep getting Taser horror stories in our e-mail in-boxes from the Chief. Needless to say, I doubt we will be issuing Tasers anytime soon.
                    Last edited by Resq14; 07-25-2005, 04:55 PM.
                    All Gave Some - Some Gave All

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                    • #11
                      Well AIr Force policy dictates that the baton will be worn on weapon side. However I was taught to wear it on the reaction side and transition to my weapon hand. I prefer it on my reaction side as it evens out the weight and I may mount it to my drop holster and try that route, but for now it's on my reaction side.
                      Professionalism always, courtesy until it's time not to be.

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                      • #12
                        ASP position

                        I wear my ASP on my weapon side. It is behind my gun and spaced with a keeper. This allows me to draw either weapon with ease and also allows easy reholstering. I too would not have both weapons out at the same time.

                        We had a state trooper who was assaulted on the side of the road. He carried his ASP on the weak side. As he was on the ground, the suspect tried to get his gun, so he rolled over onto his gun side, leaving his ASP up. He took quite a beating with his ASP because the suspect was unable to get his gun.

                        Since then, I've noticed most of the troopers have the ASP on their strong side, usually behind their weapon.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Each side can make a valid argument for baton positioning. While some have stated that they will never have both the baton and weapon out at once, bear in mind that our career field is a fluid dynamic where complacency is a lethal and frequent killer. I read an article in POLICE magazine that brought up the death of an officer who was killed because she couldn't get her weapon free. A contributing factor of to the loss? The officer wore her baton behind her weapon which was secured in a triple retention holster that had a middle finger release on it. In the course of the struggle it was determined that the baton had slid forward to behind the holster blocking the release of the middle release. Also you never know when you may have to break a window to remove a suspect who may be armed, so hmmm sounds like you may have your baton and weapon out at the same time. What it will always boil down to is training. I train with my baton on the reaction side which is how I was trained, and how I will carry my baton till I get out and leave the field. Remember guys we deal with the worst of society and while you cannot train for every scenario just remember that when you don't expect the unexpected is when it happens, and never say never.
                          Professionalism always, courtesy until it's time not to be.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wear mine on the reaction side in front of my radio. As mentioned previously, that way I can cover the baton with one arm and my handgun with the other. The way I was trained and the way I train officers today, is to draw the baton with your weak hand, and use the draw itself as a strike to attain distance between you and the attacker. As I transition the ASP to my strong hand, I automatically assume a defensive posture while extending the weapon. I carry it in a Bianchi holster, tip up. I've seen cops that carry it in back of their holster, or behind their radio, and I've seen more than 1 that has been taken out of the holster and handed back to the cop. Usually, the same cop will have place the baton closer to the front from that point on.

                            Most important, wherever you carry your baton, practice drawing it so that under stressfull conditions you won't be fumbling around to find it.
                            Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. Barry Goldwater

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by keith758
                              I wear mine on the reaction side in front of my radio. As mentioned previously, that way I can cover the baton with one arm and my handgun with the other. The way I was trained and the way I train officers today, is to draw the baton with your weak hand, and use the draw itself as a strike to attain distance between you and the attacker. As I transition the ASP to my strong hand, I automatically assume a defensive posture while extending the weapon. I carry it in a Bianchi holster, tip up. I've seen cops that carry it in back of their holster, or behind their radio, and I've seen more than 1 that has been taken out of the holster and handed back to the cop. Usually, the same cop will have place the baton closer to the front from that point on.

                              Most important, wherever you carry your baton, practice drawing it so that under stressfull conditions you won't be fumbling around to find it.
                              The method Kieth describes is the method required to be taught in WI's DAAT curriculum in the academies. I guess it works, okay. My preferred method is to place the baton at about the 10o'clock position. I carry mine in a Monodanock swiveling holder. It is carried angled about 30-45* forward. The holder sits the baton up high enough that I can cross-draw it (even with my, uh, mid-section ). This is the method currently en-vogue with some of the more famous national trainers, ie. Hindi.

                              I feel that carrying it behind the gun is a dangerous habit to get into. I worry it would slide in the way of the pistol or obstruct my hand while trying to draw. I don't like the idea of drawing with my off hand to transition as I worry doing so might be too much of a fine motor skill. The cross-draw is awesome for me. A rapid draw will expand the baton as you swing it out. Yet you are still able to draw slowly to prevent it from being expanded. It also keeps the baton away from the gun and any conflicts which could come from there.
                              Nobody ever wants to have to fight, but its a darn good idea for someone to know how.

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