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  • KenW.
    Caution: Unvetted member.
    • Nov 2003
    • 3521

    #31
    I read that post as if to carry an ASP is a liability.

    I certainly agree that a uniformed patrolman must have intermediate force options available. As a plain clothes guy, sometimes I feel ill equiped. That's why i drop my ASP into a back pocket fairly often when I'm in the field.
    I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

    Douglas MacArthur

    Comment

    • pcf
      Forum Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 58

      #32

      10 strikes, no compliance, labelled as a beating

      Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

      14 strikes to gain compliance, labelled as a beating and leads to indictment.


      Straight stick courtesy of NYPD to OWS protestors, notice none of the protestors are coming back for seconds.

      Youtube is full highly edited police "beating" videos with officers using expandable batons to little effect on resisting suspects. IMO the prevalence of cameras, the willingness of the media edit videos to create prejudiced anti-police videos, and an ineffective baton that can require lots of strikes and leave lots of bruises to gain compliance is a recipe for an indictment.

      Officers should have effective less lethal options. From personal experience with 26" steel ASP is that it's not heavy enough to get a good strike with, it hurts a lot but it not disabling. A cocobolo or hickory stick is a good baton, the RCB is a good baton. Monadnock and ASP expandles are convenient for administrators and easy to carry, but they're not good batons.
      Last edited by pcf; 08-17-2012, 02:10 PM.

      Comment

      • KenW.
        Caution: Unvetted member.
        • Nov 2003
        • 3521

        #33
        You are safe if using it within the established written policy of your agency, and have the proper training; regardless of what a bystander says.

        If you truely are "beating" someone to punish them, then yes, you should go down. Punishment is for the courts to decide and not the cops who take someone into custody.
        I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

        Douglas MacArthur

        Comment

        • Mack_357
          BadCompany
          • Apr 2010
          • 316

          #34
          Go with the RCB, one and done.
          "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who wish us harm." ---George Orwell

          Comment

          • KenW.
            Caution: Unvetted member.
            • Nov 2003
            • 3521

            #35
            Go with what your agency policy is. If itsd the RRB, fine. If its the ASP, fine. If its the PR-24, fine. But whatever you choose become proficient with it.
            I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

            Douglas MacArthur

            Comment

            • bigcitypolice06
              Forum Member
              • Jul 2008
              • 794

              #36
              PR-24 is hands down one of the most effective but under-utilized pieces of equipment available. I have even used them, and seen them used them incredibly effectively.
              "For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer." Romans 13:4

              Comment

              • jannino
                Forum Member
                • Feb 2007
                • 6701

                #37
                Like the officers have mentioned, you need practice (lots of it, actually) to become proficient with an ASP. Making your strikes hit their intended mark isn't as easy as you think and a once a year qualifier isn't enough, imo.

                If anything, just toss the bad guy your asp and then shoot him. <shrug>

                Comment

                • moparfan
                  Forum Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1994

                  #38
                  just curious on how is it that you dont carry another form of less lethal? I can not imagine a department giving you only 2 options of force A) Beat the person down B) Shoot'em. Nice force options chart. Why not eliminate A and use B all the time.
                  I'd rather be judged by 12 rather carried by 6.

                  It should be noted that any and all post that are made are based on my own thought and opinions. And are not related or implied to represent the department I work for.

                  Comment

                  • rgv_cop
                    Forum Member
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 978

                    #39
                    When I got certified with my ASP many moons ago, we were told that if we get into a legal situation by using our ASP and were certified by a certified ASP instructor in the proper technique/usage, they will provide a lawyer to assist you in any legal action taken against you.
                    "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God - Matthew 5:9

                    Comment

                    • nb14
                      Forum Member
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 13

                      #40
                      Originally posted by FiVo3
                      I carry a no name brand 21" baton. The thing opens every single time and is built well. I think I paid $25 for it. Im not spending 90 bucks on a name brand that I'm going to wrap around someones bicep or quad.

                      To answer your question: Yes, if you are approved to, and have been certified to. More options are always a better thing.
                      I also carried a no name 21" baton.....until I had to use it to break out a car window. After 4 swings the window broke....and so did the P.O.S baton. Bent the hell out of it. RCB Peacekeeper is what I carry now.

                      Comment

                      • Mrsaints75
                        Forum Member
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 462

                        #41
                        I carried an ASP for most of my career. Why you ask, because it was department policy. Once the policy changed you can carry anything you want, I put my department issued ASP in my locker and brought out my Autolock Monadnock Baton. I purchased it when I got hired and then found out I could not use it. It not bad. I like and it feel better then the ASP. I know when I use it, it will put the hurt on. I am going to get a Hindi Cap for it in the next year sometime. If anything happens it my baton I will invest in a RCB. The only reason I do not own a RCB now is because found out about them a few years ago before the policy change and decided to use my Autolock instead. Both are good batons. I will never use an ASP again.
                        Last edited by Mrsaints75; 10-26-2012, 02:07 PM.
                        "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

                        P.C. 832

                        Glock and AR-15 Armor

                        Comment

                        • vacbanned4
                          Forum Member
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 454

                          #42
                          peacekeeper rcb baton is superior to all else.

                          Comment

                          • HI629
                            Mustang Sally
                            • Mar 2010
                            • 3493

                            #43
                            Originally posted by pcf
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n9SgbK8DTw
                            10 strikes, no compliance, labelled as a beating

                            Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

                            14 strikes to gain compliance, labelled as a beating and leads to indictment.


                            Straight stick courtesy of NYPD to OWS protestors, notice none of the protestors are coming back for seconds.

                            Youtube is full highly edited police "beating" videos with officers using expandable batons to little effect on resisting suspects. IMO the prevalence of cameras, the willingness of the media edit videos to create prejudiced anti-police videos, and an ineffective baton that can require lots of strikes and leave lots of bruises to gain compliance is a recipe for an indictment.

                            Officers should have effective less lethal options. From personal experience with 26" steel ASP is that it's not heavy enough to get a good strike with, it hurts a lot but it not disabling. A cocobolo or hickory stick is a good baton, the RCB is a good baton. Monadnock and ASP expandles are convenient for administrators and easy to carry, but they're not good batons.

                            Believe what you see on the internet, however I will say that I have yet to have any problems getting the job done with my 16" ASP, nor did I have any issues with the 26" ASP. Like anything, proper training and technique will dictate your success or failure.
                            Getting shot hurts! Don't under estimate the power of live ammo. A .22LR can kill you! I personally feel that it's best to avoid being shot by any caliber. Your vest may stop the bullet, but you'll still get a nice bruise or other injury to remember the experience.

                            Comment

                            • CruiserClass
                              Forum Member
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 5517

                              #44
                              I wish I could carry a Peacekeeper. I got to go with what's issued to me, though.

                              Train with it, and its a great tool. Just stick it on your belt and figure your good to go, flailing around like you've gone full retard and end up on YouTube and you might as well leave it in the car. Know when to go baton and when not to, know where to strike and how to strike, and baton = win.
                              I miss you, Dave.
                              http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

                              Comment

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