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  • Baton Help!

    Hi Guys.

    I'm a probationer member of An Garda SÃ*ochána. As part of my
    probation I have to complete a dissertation on a policing related topic.
    My chosen topic is police operational equipment.

    Im posting here searching for a bit of info on the Monadock vs
    the Asp expendable baton. We currently the 21" ASP(since 2007)although
    the monadock was on trial approximately 4 years ago. I never
    experienced using our previously issued wooden truncheon or
    the monadock. If anybody has experience regarding both batons
    could they please tell me about th pros and cons of both.

    We were only just issued SABRE oc spray in the last month.
    Anybody have any thing to say regarding OC vs CS vs PAVA.

    Any online or written resources you could suggest for my research.



  • #2
    Sorry for such a late response. I've been away for awhile. I started in 1989 here in Alabama as a police officer. We were issued the wooden straight baton and taught the Koga Method. Robert Koga was an LAPD officer that developed the method. It seems to be based on a lot of W.E.Fairbairn's methods.

    I hated carrying that stick around but it worked. You could punch a suspect in the sternum to get his attention. This worked real well.
    A few years later I went to the county sheriff's office and was issued an ASP 21-inch expandable and taught the PPCT Method. About 5 years ago I realized that the PPCT method is a politically correct method devised to minimize damage to the criminal at the expense of the officer's safety. Sorry Bruce Siddle.
    The expandible is great because it is on your belt at all tiimes. The bad thing is that the criminal doesn't know you have it. A old LT. that recently retired made a very salient observation about a straight baton, especially the PR-24.
    If you arrive at a scene with agitated or aggresive suspects, nothing gets their attention better and puts them on notice better than an old-fashoined straight baton.
    You arrive, exit the car, slam the door REALLY HARD(acting agigtated helps), and have your baton in your strong hand. As they are all watching you step around the car, you juggle the baton a few times in your hand and in a high sweeping arc over your head, you hold the baton by the handle end and insert it into the ring. THAT ACTION SETS THE TONE FOR THE CALL.
    Now that may be too intimidating in the British Isles but it is what we need here in America. As America becomes more "civilized" our citizens are more vain, rude, cruel, mean, and disrespectful of everyone and everything.
    The old straight or PR-24 baton is old tech that works better than new tech.
    What is old is new again.
    I feel the pendelum will swing back to straight batons especially since the new targetting memo from Taser came out. Sounds like all is not rosy with the X26 and we need something other than pepper spray.
    My shift of 4 patrol officers and our night shift officers are going to buy our own Pr-24s and have located an instructor to certify us. That is how we feel about expandible straight batons.
    Hope this helps.


    • #3
      Monadnock Baton

      Monadnock Expandable Straight Baton
      Other brands of expandable or rigid straight batons are also accepted under this certification.

      PR-24 Baton

      There are several Monadnock International Instructor Trainers in Europe and England.

      I'm a Senior Monadnock Instructor Trainer PR-24, Monadnock Expandable Straight Baton, OC, and Monadnock Defensive Tactics System.

      I teach instructor classes on the east coast.
      Last edited by TPM; 11-11-2009, 01:19 PM.


      • #4
        Thanks lads, your right PCSarge no matter how much we would like to do
        that here, I can just imagine our Super sh**ing himself when the inevitable
        complaints from the scumbag's solicitors come flowing in.

        The train of thought over here has always been to hide any and all weapons,
        for instance when the Gardai had 13" wooden truncheons our trousers had a special long pocket on the right leg with the leather strap being the only visible part of the baton.

        Even today we are ment to use covered pouches for our ASPs, handcuffs
        and OC spray. Many members buy side-break scabbards but in some stations
        they are told to take them off.
        When detectives are armed they pull their ****s over their holster. I
        think its silly but the public are against seeing an armed police force
        and you know policing by consent and all that!

        Even the culture within the force is geared more towards using
        your body as a control mechanism rather than batons etc. Any arrests
        I have made so far have involved me using open hand control techniques.


        • #5
          Baton Choice

          Hi Irl Cop

          I am a serving Constable (10 years ) with Strathclyde Police (Glasgow, Scotland).
          I also served with the RAF Regiment prior to the Police.

          In the RAF Regiment in Northern Ireland I carried 3 foot long wooden baton.

          When I joined the Police we has no body armour or CS spray.
          And carried the Monadnock PR24.
          The training at the college for the baton took a week , 80% of it was useless !
          For you American cops I will explain , we were only allowed to use the side handle as a grip , so all strikes were two handed , using this technque it is not a good striking weapon !
          But it is a good defensive weapon.
          My force since about 2004 now issue the 22" Monadnock Autolock baton ,with the Hindi Cap and powertip.
          In my opinion this is a much better baton for striking with , and also much more intimidating when drawn !
          I would prefer if it was the longer (wouldnt we all) 24" length.
          Although it is hopeless as a defensive weapon. It is basically a hitting stick !
          So as you can probably tell i prefer the Autolock.
          Hopefully this explanation links with the Gardais policys. And makes sense.




          • #6
            Hindi Baton Cap

            Hindi Baton Cap


            • #7
              I use a Monadnock Expandable Straight Baton with a Hindi cap. I love how I can collapse the baton without having to bang it on the floor. I don't use my baton much. I have pulled it several time but people have always backed down. There is nothing like hearing and seeing a baton snap open to shed some fear into a person. It's small and has worked well with breaking windows and such.


              • #8
                We are looking into the Rapid Rotation Baton. Do a internet search. I have spoken with the inventor, who worked as a real honest to goodness cop for a decade. It is used by the Federal Bureau of Prisons at "Supermax" facilities and after some rather good experiences with it, it is being issued bureau wide.
                It is rather cumbersome but looks like it is a helluva defensive weapon.
                Don't be put off by the rather overdone demos on the net. The instructors got a little carried away and rahter theatrical. Roy, the inventor is putting on a demo in central Alabama in JAnuary. Will let you know how it works out.


                • #9
                  IRL Cop,
                  I guess my open-top magazine pouches would be forbidden as well! It seems that that the "do-gooder socialist " mindset in the Isles is forever. Read where England is trying to give criminals rights, like the right to commit crime without fear of violence from the victims. Also read where the Brits do not arrest car thieves caught in the act. They just identify them and send them on their way. They prosecute farmers who shoot home invaders and make arrested home owner pay for thugs pain and suffering.

                  The Guardian newpaper from England has the audacity to print an editorial telling us Americans that we are TOO HARD on child molesters!

                  MY hat is off to you my friend. I'd be damned if I had to hide any of my weapons. Right now, America is having a hard time getting decent-enough people to apply for police jobs. Your rules seem so unreasonable.
                  I'm about to buy my own rack to mount my 12-gauge and my AR in the front passenger compartment of my car!

                  Take care over there. If you ever get tired of Irish policing, come over here.


                  • #10
                    Dymondwood straight baton


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