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2021 USFWS Land Management LEO

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  • 2021 USFWS Land Management LEO

    ..........
    Last edited by OutofRoll; 05-02-2021, 05:13 PM.

  • #2
    Curious as to what kind of applicants they're looking for. Do you have to have a law enforcement background?

    Looks like my JD meets the minimum requirements, but there's a ton of questions asking about your law enforcement experience as it relates to wildlife/conservation type things (which I have ZERO of).

    Comment


    • Anthropologist
      Anthropologist commented
      Editing a comment
      If you can get through law school then you can interpret and enforce natural resource law easily. lol

  • #3
    Referred 6 January. 15 years MIL (12 as Military Police), 2 years Federal corrections and 5 years as 1801 LE experience). Not sure if I want it though--if someone knows anything about the job and agency, please chime in.

    Comment


    • #4
      Yea does anyone know how competitive this is and how selective they’re gonna be? Although I am in the running for a few 1811s, this is truly what I could see myself doing for my entire career. I turned down a final offer with my state’s F&W LE (FWC) like an idiot cause the pay was insultingly low, but hopefully this could be
      my second chance. Was able to put in my apps for a couple of these right at 1am EST because I happened to be up and check USA jobs by sheer luck.

      Comment


      • #5
        Posting closed 1/30. Surprised it took them that long to get 100 apps.

        Comment


        • #6
          I was told the last hiring in 2018-2019 netted 20 new officers out of approximately 2500 applicants
          Last edited by wheresthebeef; 01-30-2021, 03:56 PM. Reason: typo

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by big_bob_69 View Post
            Curious as to what kind of applicants they're looking for. Do you have to have a law enforcement background?
            No you don't have to have an LE background. They've hired people who were state game wardens, air marshals, and state troopers and they've hired people right out of college.

            I will say the past few years it seems like there's always a trend in each hire. One year nearly everyone hired was a vet, the next year half of the hires were female (the year before only one was a female.) My guess this year they will really be trying to get minorities hired. The USFWS just had their first Patrol Captain academy graduation yesterday and the Chief of Refuges (non-LE, essentially the top person in the refuge system) basically kicked it off with talking about how the world is full of racial inequality, so that tells you where she stands.

            The agency is changing. All FWOs now can get AUO, previously it was up to the regions. Beginning 1/31/2021 FWOs will be supervised by Patrol Captains instead of Refuge Mangers/Project Leaders.

            Comment


            • big_bob_69
              big_bob_69 commented
              Editing a comment
              Interesting, thanks for the updates.

              Good luck to USFWS proving that my .01% Native American doesn’t make me a minority.

          • #8
            Originally posted by Srok1 View Post
            Referred 6 January. 15 years MIL (12 as Military Police), 2 years Federal corrections and 5 years as 1801 LE experience). Not sure if I want it though--if someone knows anything about the job and agency, please chime in.

            You'll hop in your truck every morning and stop in at the office, i.e. refuge HQ. After refilling your Yeti with Folgers and enjoying some friendly banter with the office gals, off you go for a patrol. Maybe you'll check in with your boss, maybe not. Since fewer of them ever did LE than ever before, you may not have an advocate in that position. But you'll mostly be left alone and have control over your daily activities, which is rare in the G.

            AND- keep in mind this- your employer is not an agency where LE is it's sole mission. The agency is run by biologists, not cops. LE is a niche, and refuge LE is second banana to OLE, which largely considers you to be pizzants who live in their shadow. You'll realize pretty quick where you stand on the totem pole with this outfit--- at the bottom.

            You'll gas up your rig and check the boat ramps for activity. If trailers are parked at the ramps, you'll go hook up your boat and launch as well. If the lots are empty, you'll stay in your truck and drive to the various public access sites.

            People approach all day. Fishermen ask what bait the fish are hitting on. Hunters want to know where the ducks are at. Birdwatchers ask where they can see a red-eyed vireo. Toothless goobers with dark spittle on their chin tell you they always wanted to be a game warden and ask how to get hired.

            If it's summer, you'll check fishing licenses and creels. If it's fall, you'll be checking deer and duck hunters. Night surveillances for spotlighters. Zero dark thirty morning surveillance for early shooting. The busy season is definitely fall. Somedays you'll leave at 4am and not return until after midnight.

            Usually there's an off season in late winter/early spring that allows for training and equipment maintenance but it can be busy year round at many wildlife refuges. Some places are secret hookup spots for downlow encounters of the same sex. You'll be on foot patrol on the nature trail (the same trail families and school groups hike all the time) and as you turn a corner, you encounter two middle age males getting freaky at the picnic area. You ask for their IDs but they have a lot to lose by complying... they are likely married with kids and professionally employed, like guidance counselor or a minister. So instead of complying, suddenly you are wrestling two half-clothed and fully sprung adult men who will do almost anything to escape the situation, lest their secret lives get exposed.

            Some refuges are scenic gems, like Elk refuge in Wyoming. Most are wetlands, i.e. buggy lowlands and snake infested swamps where something is always out to get you... cottonmouths hanging from tree branches over the canals, timber rattlers as thick as loblolly limbs, and the ubiquitous swarms of biting insects. Other refuges, like Detroit River, are nestled in urban centers surrounded by heavy industry. Instead of enjoying sunsets over the mountains every night, you'll be marveling at the various hues of benzene as it bellows from a factory smokestack.

            You quickly learn how to mitigate the natural threats, and the man made as well. Like how hunters and fishermen often evacuate their bowels in the access parking areas, seeing how there's no restroom or outhouses. After one time of stepping in fresh human dookie, you'll never exit your rig without carefully scanning the grass and dirt.

            And there may be parts of the job that you probably weren't aware of, like nuisance animal control. Everything from feral pigs to nutria to mute swans to abandoned house cats. You'll become an expert marksmen, and learn the value of a burlap sack and a brick when it comes to stopping an old tomcat from eating more birds.

            Some refuges (especially the older ones) offer housing. If you live in refuge housing, it means you never leave work. People knock on your door at all hours and management expects you to respond 24/7 to anything that happens. Your neighbors are your co-workers, so your life is one insular loop of work and co-workers. And you may live in a location where the locals despise the USFWS (see Malheur, Oregon). The result is living and working in a bunker situation, which isn't healthy from any angle in the long run.

            Refuges are often located off the beaten path, in backwater parts of the country where the quality of life isn't exactly the highest. There may not be employment opportunities for spouses and the school systems may not be ideal. You may be able to move to a better location after a couple of years or you may get stuck in a blankhole for your career. The cookie crumbles differently for everyone.

            Someone commented earlier about being in the running for 1811 jobs as well. Here's the deal: refuge LE can be a blast- outside every day in God's country, running boats and atvs, actually doing real game warden work (OLE does almost zero of this anymore). But there's a huge difference between GS-9 vs GS-13 when it comes to financial security. And there's also a huge difference working for an agency where LE is it's primary mission vs. an agency that just kinda dabbles in it. And at some point, running boats and atvs loses the excitement and you yearn to work bigger things than litterers and late shooters and accosting closeted men in the picnic area....

            No one likes change but a wet baby.

            Mark Twain

            Comment


            • wildstar82
              wildstar82 commented
              Editing a comment
              "Toothless goobers with dark spittle on their chin tell you they always wanted to be a game warden and ask how to get hired."

              If I only had a dollar for everytime I've witnessed this... Well Sir, my first piece of advice is to get off meth and stop being a criminal.

              Ratattat never let's us down with his descriptors.

            • Srok1
              Srok1 commented
              Editing a comment
              Amazing description of the job, thank you Rat. However, I may have posted in the wrong thread lol. I am in the running for 1811. Whoops.

            • Ratatatat
              Ratatatat commented
              Editing a comment
              Fws 1811 is a waste of your time.

            • OutofRoll
              OutofRoll commented
              Editing a comment
              Lol I enjoy the posting this started my day off great

          • #9
            Well threw my hat into the ring for this job announcement. Let’s see where this goes. Interesting duty locations listed on there. Also, I noticed the blurb about “Additional locations will be added later down the line during the hiring process since additional vacancies are expected.” Does anyone know which locations may come open or is this just some sort of attempt by the agency to possibly attract candidates to apply who may be qualified for the position but not interested at all in the location vacancies they posted?

            Comment


            • #10
              Announcement is being advertised "Location Negotiable After Selection". The locations identified so far as having a vacant position are as follows:

              Minnesota Valley National Wildlife Refuge, Bloomington, Minnesota
              Illinois River National Wildlife Refuge, Havana, Illinois
              Sheldon-Hart Mountain National Wildlife Refuge, Lakeview, Oregon
              Desert National Wildlife Refuge, Las Vegas, Nevada
              James Campbell National Wildlife Refuge, O'ahu, Hawaii
              Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, Princeton, Oregon
              Upper Mississippi River National Wildlife Refuge, Winona, Illinois

              Patriots & Profits Hammonds & Burns segment 1995 - YouTube
              No one likes change but a wet baby.

              Mark Twain

              Comment


              • LeoGrind33
                LeoGrind33 commented
                Editing a comment
                Looks like a nice place..Thanks Rat I will steer clear of that location man

            • #11
              Originally posted by LeoGrind33 View Post
              Well threw my hat into the ring for this job announcement. Let’s see where this goes. Interesting duty locations listed on there. Also, I noticed the blurb about “Additional locations will be added later down the line during the hiring process since additional vacancies are expected.” Does anyone know which locations may come open or is this just some sort of attempt by the agency to possibly attract candidates to apply who may be qualified for the position but not interested at all in the location vacancies they posted?
              One of the big complaints from current USFWS Officers is that they don't get first dibs at vacancies. You've had new hires get placed into some very nice locations when it was never advertised as a internal/lateral transfer. As you can imagine, this doesn't do good for morale. Time and time again HQ has said they will end this practice but they do it again. Last year they changed the narrative and said "well we have to advertise some nice locations for new hires otherwise nobody would apply." Well isn't that nice. So what you're seeing now is officers making some backdoor moves without going thru HQ to get a transfer. They're doing this by finding out there's a vacancy and essentially calling up the respective Regional LE Chief and throwing themselves at them. Because a motto from HQ has always been "regions are free to do whatever they want.'

              With that being said I can tell you that of the 7 duty stations listed in the job announcement only James Campbell was advertised internally, nobody wanted it. Upper Miss. was advertised but was quickly removed from the list. Had these 7 duty stations been advertised internally my guess is Minnesota Valley, Illinois River, Upper Miss, and possibly even Desert would've gone to an internal transfer. So you essentially have 3-4 desirable spots. Hawaii is expensive, good luck living on a GL-9 salary. Nobody wants to work at Sheldon-Hart or Malheur because it is very remote, they can never keep people there.

              Minnesota Valley National Wildlife Refuge, Bloomington, Minnesota
              Illinois River National Wildlife Refuge, Havana, Illinois
              Sheldon-Hart Mountain National Wildlife Refuge, Lakeview, Oregon
              Desert National Wildlife Refuge, Las Vegas, Nevada
              James Campbell National Wildlife Refuge, O'ahu, Hawaii
              Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, Princeton, Oregon
              Upper Mississippi River National Wildlife Refuge, Winona, Illinois

              As far as additional vacancies, you never know. People will retire, promote, resign, etc. all causing vacancies. OLE is starting to work on their hire, I'm sure they will pick up a few officers which will cause vacancies. Also keep in mind that USFWS is now staffing Air Force bases so you may get assigned to an AFB instead of a refuge.

              Comment


              • #12
                wildlife97 This was very insightful I appreciate this information. So in a way it’s like winning the lottery by being offered a prime Refuge location to start your career if offered the position because it seems challenging to get a transfer once you are at your initial post? Also, because of this reason do you see a lot of employee movement from one agency to the next? Such as FWS to Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, NPS or vice versa? Seems like once you have LMPT a whole new world opens up to you.

                Comment


                • #13
                  Originally posted by LeoGrind33 View Post
                  wildlife97 This was very insightful I appreciate this information. So in a way it’s like winning the lottery by being offered a prime Refuge location to start your career if offered the position because it seems challenging to get a transfer once you are at your initial post? Also, because of this reason do you see a lot of employee movement from one agency to the next? Such as FWS to Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, NPS or vice versa? Seems like once you have LMPT a whole new world opens up to you.
                  You can certainly get a transfer, but not all the places on the transfer list are desirable.

                  One thing about USFWS which is different than say the USFS or NPS is most refuges actually do not have a dedicated officer, and those that do likely just have one officer. Whereas most forests have a handful of officers and NPS sites can have 2 or 50 officers. So if you're trying to "get home" or whatever may be the case there may not be a refuge close to "home" or if there is they may not have an LEO position, or if they do it is likely just one LEO and heck he may plan on being there for 20 years. At least with NPS and USFS there are numerous positions within a smaller geographic area so you could at least get close to your desired destination.

                  Yes LMPT really is the golden ticket.

                  There is quite a bit of movement among the land management agencies. However that being said it's kind of all in one way. People leave the NPS and go to USFS, BLM, and USFWS. People leave USFWS and go to USFS and BLM. People go back and forth between BLM and USFS. Rarely do you see people from USFS or BLM to USFWS. And it's very rare to see someone go from USFS/BLM/FWS to NPS.

                  And it for most people it comes down to pay. Almost every BLM Ranger is a GS-11, and a vast majority of them get 25% AUO. With USFS their field officers are GL-9 with most getting around 25% AUO, they did just hire some GS-11 lead FTOs which was a first for them. And with USFS and BLM they usually have a lot of OT possibilities with different grants and projects. For FWS most are GL-9 with 10% AUO and that across the board AUO just started last year, you can earn more than 10% but most don't. Any OT is likely associate with wildland fire security and not the grant/project type work that BLM and USFS gets. And then you have NPS, GL-9, no AUO, in many cases required occupancy, shift work, etc. So you can see why the shift all tends to be in one direction.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Looks like they're going through apps. Wasn't referred. Check your email.

                    Comment


                    • griffinlocke
                      griffinlocke commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Same :/ guess they’re really picky with this one. Hopefully I’ll have better luck with their recent grad announcement.

                    • big_bob_69
                      big_bob_69 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      It seemed like they wanted someone with land management experience. Can't see many people who don't already do this job having that experience lol.

                  • #15
                    And of course I got the “vets must be referred before you by law message” for the recent grad. Man, that really bums me out.

                    Comment


                    • Anthropologist
                      Anthropologist commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Don't let it bother you! There are plenty of other federal law enforcement positions.

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