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  • Should I give up on employment in the public sector?


    Wondering if I should give up on my pursuit in the public sector. Any advice on the situation, which agency/job would be the best shot, or even a better thread/forum for this post would be appreciated.

    **Background and Criminal History**


    Was a typical kid in high school/college. Didn’t do anything too crazy, but stole clothes from a store when I was 16 and then did community service for it. Smoked weed for a couple years.


    When I turned 18 got fired from my first job for smoking spice. Although it was legal at the time and was done off the clock, I still got let go. That was about 11 years ago.


    When I was 20, I got stopped for speeding after going to a bar with a fake ID. I passed all field sobriety tests, but got cited out with about .04 BAC. The important note is I was allowed to drive home, but in a zero tolerance state for minors, had my license suspended and now have to disclose this “DUI” on my applications.


    About four years later as I was going to background for a state agency I was arrested on the warrant for FTO on that same case from above. I honestly had no idea about the criminal charges and later saw in the file that the paperwork was actually not filed properly by the court; thus I genuinely didn’t know about it. However, I was arrested and booked by my background investigator. The case was resolved that same year - fake ID was a “M” that got dropped and BAC charge was an “I” that I paid a small fine on.


    I applied for a number of agencies throughout the years, but have been denied in background every time and likely got blackballed.


    My driving record other than that isn’t the worst, consisting of maybe 5 - 10 various tickets throughout the years and one small accident.


    I recently applied for some 1811 positions with three letter agencies, but feel like it’s not looking too hot.

    **Some Positives**


    Currently I have a MS in LE intelligence. Am fluent in Russian. Work for a good EP company and actually like my job with decent pay and growth potential.


    Previously worked in the Bail Industry on a recovery side for a good and a very reputable company with a great team of ex-LEOs, SWAT, and military guys where I got great experience and extensive training both in managing a caseload, conducting investigations and arrest.
    **Final Thoughts**


    I get it, beggars can’t be choosers. I am right now thinking outside of the box to see if I can get my foot in the door by either applying to out of state bottom of the barrel agencies, 1811 positions, and Intelligence jobs. Logic behind decisions:
    • Was told that standards vary state to state thus trying out of state (we want to move anyway) may yield better results.
    • 1811s seem to have somewhat more lenient standards as some of the background questions for locals that state “have you ever” vs. “since you turned 18” for Feds. Employment history also doesn’t cover the whole lifetime and my skill set is actually more favorable to some 1811s than it is to local agencies. Especially the USSS which I know is desperate for people and I have protection experience.
    • IA, out of public eye, not driving a patrol vehicle, not carrying a weapon
    Thank you.





  • #2
    Try US Customs and Border Protection?

    They hire by the boatload. Your Masters and Russian fluency might tip the scales with CBP in comparison against your stated past indiscretions.

    Comment


    • comrade
      comrade commented
      Editing a comment
      I don't speak a word of Spanish

    • big_bob_69
      big_bob_69 commented
      Editing a comment
      You don’t have to speak Spanish. They teach you that at FLETC.

    • merlin436
      merlin436 commented
      Editing a comment
      OFO, the largest law enforcement component of CBP doesn't, for the most part, have a Spanish requirement. As was aforementioned, if it happens to be a requirement, you'll be trained in Spanish at the academy. You already are fluent in at least two languages. I'm guessing that you'll handle basic Spanish classes adequately.

  • #3
    Apply to Border Patrol, be honest and up front about everything, you might be surprised.

    Comment


    • Winter_Patriot
      Winter_Patriot commented
      Editing a comment
      My background investigator told me this -- they don't clear perfect people, they clear honest people.

      It's the folks who are willing to lie to pass a background check that will betray their country/organization.

      I had a few things to explain for my military top secret clearance investigation, but I was honest and ended up getting a favorable adjudication.

      That adjudication has helped me when looking for federal civilian and law enforcement jobs. Some agencies have been willing to adopt the OPM background investigation in full or in part. Still going to be a challenge depending on the agency, but I'm glad I played it straight. Several folks told me to disclose, and that would've been the worst mistake possible.

    • battlewagon
      battlewagon commented
      Editing a comment
      Spanish Knowledge is not required

    • Deadpker
      Deadpker commented
      Editing a comment
      Not to say what Winter_Patriot stated isn't correct, but I took the advice of "honestly is the best policy" and my TO with a Fed LE agency was immediately rescinded and I was removed from the process.

      Would they have ever found out that I was a stoner in high school? In all likely hood, probably not as the agency doesn't polygraph. But I did the right thing, disclosed it, and was immediately removed from the process.

      Food for thought.

    • ZeroMood
      ZeroMood commented
      Editing a comment
      Well, i certainly wouldn't take Deadpker's "food for thought" because that will get your app trashed every single time if they catch you lying.

  • #4
    Disregard my last. Good luck.
    Last edited by NYCopper; 12-01-2020, 04:46 PM.

    Comment


    • #5
      Originally posted by comrade View Post
      Wondering if I should give up on my pursuit in the public sector. Any advice on the situation, which agency/job would be the best shot, or even a better thread/forum for this post would be appreciated.

      **Background and Criminal History**


      Was a typical kid in high school/college. Didn’t do anything too crazy, but stole clothes from a store when I was 16 and then did community service for it. Smoked weed for a couple years.


      When I turned 18 got fired from my first job for smoking spice. Although it was legal at the time and was done off the clock, I still got let go. That was about 11 years ago.


      When I was 20, I got stopped for speeding after going to a bar with a fake ID. I passed all field sobriety tests, but got cited out with about .04 BAC. The important note is I was allowed to drive home, but in a zero tolerance state for minors, had my license suspended and now have to disclose this “DUI” on my applications.


      About four years later as I was going to background for a state agency I was arrested on the warrant for FTO on that same case from above. I honestly had no idea about the criminal charges and later saw in the file that the paperwork was actually not filed properly by the court; thus I genuinely didn’t know about it. However, I was arrested and booked by my background investigator. The case was resolved that same year - fake ID was a “M” that got dropped and BAC charge was an “I” that I paid a small fine on.


      I applied for a number of agencies throughout the years, but have been denied in background every time and likely got blackballed.


      My driving record other than that isn’t the worst, consisting of maybe 5 - 10 various tickets throughout the years and one small accident.


      I recently applied for some 1811 positions with three letter agencies, but feel like it’s not looking too hot.

      **Some Positives**


      Currently I have a MS in LE intelligence. Am fluent in Russian. Work for a good EP company and actually like my job with decent pay and growth potential.


      Previously worked in the Bail Industry on a recovery side for a good and a very reputable company with a great team of ex-LEOs, SWAT, and military guys where I got great experience and extensive training both in managing a caseload, conducting investigations and arrest.
      **Final Thoughts**


      I get it, beggars can’t be choosers. I am right now thinking outside of the box to see if I can get my foot in the door by either applying to out of state bottom of the barrel agencies, 1811 positions, and Intelligence jobs. Logic behind decisions:
      • Was told that standards vary state to state thus trying out of state (we want to move anyway) may yield better results.
      • 1811s seem to have somewhat more lenient standards as some of the background questions for locals that state “have you ever” vs. “since you turned 18” for Feds. Employment history also doesn’t cover the whole lifetime and my skill set is actually more favorable to some 1811s than it is to local agencies. Especially the USSS which I know is desperate for people and I have protection experience.
      • IA, out of public eye, not driving a patrol vehicle, not carrying a weapon
      Thank you.



      Saved...

      Comment


      • #6
        Originally posted by comrade View Post
        Wondering if I should give up on my pursuit in the public sector. Any advice on the situation, which agency/job would be the best shot, or even a better thread/forum for this post would be appreciated.

        **Background and Criminal History**



        Was a typical kid in high school/college. Didn’t do anything too crazy, but stole clothes from a store when I was 16 and then did community service for it. Smoked weed for a couple years.


        When I turned 18 got fired from my first job for smoking spice. Although it was legal at the time and was done off the clock, I still got let go. That was about 11 years ago.


        When I was 20, I got stopped for speeding after going to a bar with a fake ID. I passed all field sobriety tests, but got cited out with about .04 BAC. The important note is I was allowed to drive home, but in a zero tolerance state for minors, had my license suspended and now have to disclose this “DUI” on my applications.


        About four years later as I was going to background for a state agency I was arrested on the warrant for FTO on that same case from above. I honestly had no idea about the criminal charges and later saw in the file that the paperwork was actually not filed properly by the court; thus I genuinely didn’t know about it. However, I was arrested and booked by my background investigator. The case was resolved that same year - fake ID was a “M” that got dropped and BAC charge was an “I” that I paid a small fine on.


        I applied for a number of agencies throughout the years, but have been denied in background every time and likely got blackballed.


        My driving record other than that isn’t the worst, consisting of maybe 5 - 10 various tickets throughout the years and one small accident.


        I recently applied for some 1811 positions with three letter agencies, but feel like it’s not looking too hot.

        **Some Positives**



        Currently I have a MS in LE intelligence. Am fluent in Russian. Work for a good EP company and actually like my job with decent pay and growth potential.


        Previously worked in the Bail Industry on a recovery side for a good and a very reputable company with a great team of ex-LEOs, SWAT, and military guys where I got great experience and extensive training both in managing a caseload, conducting investigations and arrest.
        **Final Thoughts**



        I get it, beggars can’t be choosers. I am right now thinking outside of the box to see if I can get my foot in the door by either applying to out of state bottom of the barrel agencies, 1811 positions, and Intelligence jobs. Logic behind decisions:
        • Was told that standards vary state to state thus trying out of state (we want to move anyway) may yield better results.
        • 1811s seem to have somewhat more lenient standards as some of the background questions for locals that state “have you ever” vs. “since you turned 18” for Feds. Employment history also doesn’t cover the whole lifetime and my skill set is actually more favorable to some 1811s than it is to local agencies. Especially the USSS which I know is desperate for people and I have protection experience.
        • IA, out of public eye, not driving a patrol vehicle, not carrying a weapon
        Thank you.




        You could probably get an intelligence job somewhere, but I doubt you would get an 1811 job, corrections maybe. I don't know where you got the idea 1811 jobs are somehow more lenient. I didn't make suitability or adjudicative decisions, but I looked into people for security clearances before my current job. What will hurt you is the fact you had a fake ID, other's are free to correct me but I believe that can be a felony in certain states. Weed can be mitigated for a security clearance, the spice probably too because it occurred over 10 years ago. The arrest will cause you problems, your explanation on the warrant is iffy to me. I issue those on offenders I supervise when its necessary to do so, and I can tell you they aren't just issued without cause and it takes a lot (at least for me) to get one approved.

        Comment


        • comrade
          comrade commented
          Editing a comment
          Just FYI I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative, but to answer the concerns you brought up for my thinking.

          Strictly comparing questions on SF-86 vs PHS in my state (whish is mostly standard at this point), SF-86 job history went back 10 years as opposed to "ever", infractions below 300 dollars weren't asked for on SF-86 and were on PHS, criminal history also went back to 18 for several question that on PHS went back to "ever". Filling it out, I could legally omit several issues I brought up on SF-86 that I couldn't on PHS.

          Also my background in EP is more applicable to USSS than to local PD. Similarly bail experience was revolved around surveillance, investigations, working in small teams, covering large geographical region and was fundamentally mimicking Marshals and is only loosely related to local PD (at least on patrol level). And then Russian fluency seems to mean jack sht to PD, but is one of the top languages desired by FBI for instance.

          The warrant was a simple FTA warrant, but the original court paperwork was sent to the wrong address which the courts have wrong on file. I was arrested by my BI during an in person interview on a petty 4K as a clean cut applicant in the SO.

          Bottom line is I know what I've done and I understand the perception LE has today; however, legally speaking I can honestly say that I've never been convicted of any crime greater than an infraction in my adult life. Either way, thanks for the input as it certainly helps better understand perspective from other LEOs.

        • Levithane
          Levithane commented
          Editing a comment
          comrade And the fact you brought up the point about omitting those, is already going to cause you issues. Just because you can legally do it, doesn't mean you should. What I will tell you is that yeah the SF 86 has time frames, but guess what? When I used to go out and interview people I dug up things people didn't put on their questionnaires this includes things that occurred outside of the timeframes that the SF86 asks. What will happen and I can 100% guarantee you this is that you'll omit that information, and it will be developed over the course of the background investigation. Yeah those things occurred outside of the timeframe, but those are issues an adjudicator, and reviewer would ask me to get the whole story behind. Also Im not a sworn Peace Officer or LEO, Im giving you the perspective of doing background investigative work for a little over 2 years in the federal environment employed by a contractor(military, civilian, and sometimes for LEO positions).

          And just for perspective on what they'll look at, when I went through the TS process the lady who investigated me was thorough. One of the things she had to look into was me getting a verbal warning at work (already told them about it), even though I didn't receive disciplinary action as a result. She got the totality of circumstances around it. So even small things like that they'll look into. Are there things I could have omitted during the process? Yeah, but I would rather not have the potentiality for some @#$ hole try hanging it over my head and possibly attempt blackmail.
          Last edited by Levithane; 12-01-2020, 10:32 PM. Reason: Added content.

        • Badger99
          Badger99 commented
          Editing a comment
          I can say from a non-LEO IC point of view that nobody will care about the weed unless it’s very recent. For example I believe CIA’s rule is no weed use in the last 12 months. Obviously other agencies, especially LE, have much different views on past drug use.

          The more challenging part is the DUI. Enough time has passed you’re probably fine but that is a black mark that will have an effect. Intel won’t care about the fake ID, aside from the fact it’s tied to your DUI arrest.

          IMO you likely could get cleared for an IC job, but the suitability aspect of an 1811 job (especially agencies like the FBI, DEA, etc) is just always going to be hard. It may be hard to get a favorable special agent suitability review with an adult arrest.
          Last edited by Badger99; 12-01-2020, 10:57 PM.

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