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  • #76
    Originally posted by AP552 View Post
    Since my CITP Class was delayed, I ended up graduating from a larger municipal agency. So far I am really enjoying running call to call and doing your "typical" police officer duties. Now that FLETC is opening back up, I was wondering if any one wanted to share the benefits of Federal 1811 vs local police. Pay is good where I am at and the pension is unheard of good. Conflicted if I should stay where I am at or go special agent. Any pros and cons would be great!
    Lol. You must work in Jackson Hole Wyoming or some other sun-kissed garden of Eden.....

    RE: 1811 vs local PD. Well, it's been covered here before, with ample input. All I can offer is if you're happy, then stay put.
    What does not kill you will likely try again.

    Comment


    • #77
      DoD88 yes. My question still stands. What are they doing with these students? Sending home until they are "cured" etc...

      Comment


      • DoD88
        DoD88 commented
        Editing a comment
        Currently, from what I've been told they are quarantined and sent home. I would imagine they come back when their agency can get them back in.

      • MXDesa
        MXDesa commented
        Editing a comment
        DoD88, are you familiar with the pace in which they’re bringing students back? Is it at the stage where a new class (CITP) arrives weekly?

    • #78
      I think it would be extremely unfair to delay confirmed positive students once they’ve recovered. It’s a medical issue that they can’t and couldn’t control.
      Last edited by MXDesa; 06-18-2020, 07:58 PM.

      Comment


      • DoD88
        DoD88 commented
        Editing a comment
        You think that's bad enough? Some agencies will recycle them back to day 1 no matter how far along in training they were. I agree, it's not within the student's control especially when FLETC is the one bringing everyone back and I can attest firsthand that they are not following their own COVID procedures.

    • #79
      What a bad joke. The idiots running the center for excellence never cease to amaze me.

      Comment


      • invertedPanda
        invertedPanda commented
        Editing a comment
        It's beyond *** backwards. All the new incoming students that are under "restriction of movement" for their two weeks get to use the gym but those that have already done that and are back to training can't use the gym at all, whatsoever.

        Must wear masks indoors, in classrooms, while during training indoors at TRT, and in chow but there is no social distancing in the chow lol

        I swear these people that run this place have never gone through an academy.

      • RetVet
        RetVet commented
        Editing a comment
        It’s a shame. I used to look up to the agency. Those days are gone.

    • #80
      Has anyone who was in March classes or who was scheduled to start CITP in April/May received any definite word on a new date?

      Comment


      • boilerpilot
        boilerpilot commented
        Editing a comment
        I understand that the situation is rapidly changing with COVID and how FLETC is handling it, but something as simple as "no new classes will be scheduled this fiscal/calendar year" would be immensely helpful for people who are trying to plan family/life events, use-or-lose annual leave, etc.

        Hopefully the new classes will have significantly more than 4 days notice to attend training..not everyone can just show up at the drop of a hat for 6+ months of training...especially if it's across the country...and there's no way to leave campus to attend to any personal matters...

      • MXDesa
        MXDesa commented
        Editing a comment
        I was scheduled to go in mid April and I still haven’t heard a thing about it, unfortunately.

      • 1811HopefulDC
        1811HopefulDC commented
        Editing a comment
        @boilerplate, so the Hr folks from the Agency I am waiting with stated that there are no new classes this FY. That FLETC was going to finish all classes that were in progress and then start the classes that were cancelled, ours way a July class and now we were told hopefully in Fall FY21

      • boilerpilot
        boilerpilot commented
        Editing a comment
        @1911HopefulDC, yes, I've heard similar, but purely as speculation/rumors. If that's the case, official notification would be welcome from a lot of new hires who are in this holding pattern. Maybe we'll get something this coming week.

    • #81
      FLETC has denied all religious accommodation requests for leaving the center.

      Comment


      • invertedPanda
        invertedPanda commented
        Editing a comment
        They're denying all new ones being filed. Those that have already been approved haven't rescinded.

        I guess they got smart to all the people trying to exercise their first amendment rights to get off post.

    • #82
      That place was always bizzarro world. The drinking fountains would be taped up and there'd be signs saying the water was unsafe and drink only from designated water coolers. Then one day the fountains would have no tape and the signs would disappear. What happened? Did the water suddenly become safe? No the contract with the water cooler company hit its delivery ceiling for the month.

      RE: covid-19.This 'restriction of movement' and lockdown on base for the duration of an academy is ineffective and unnecessary.

      Here's the deal: this disease doesn't affect people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. It's the 50 and up crowd. Who is 50 and up at fletc? There are a handful of older students but mainly its the instructors, many of whom are re-hired annuitants.

      I literally witnessed an old guy die there once. Retired Philadelphia PD officer who got on with the US Mint Police as second career. On Day One he was doing the PEB and died on the floor of the locker room restroom. I walked by the scene as EMTs were performing CPR.

      I'm an old guy now. No way would I try to run 1.5 miles in ten minutes.

      Because of the rona, no way am I doing anything involving crowds of people. No MAGA rallies, BLM protests, concerts, graduation parties.

      Maybe the solution is drop the ridiculous movement restrictions but establish a new one: no one over 50 allowed on center...
      Last edited by Ratatatat; 06-20-2020, 10:46 AM.
      What does not kill you will likely try again.

      Comment


      • #83
        Just wait for the lawsuits. Dudes on the HSI forum are already talking about it, and how it’s eerily similar to something they did to USBP about 10-15 years ago, which resulted in a successful lawsuit filed on behalf of the PA’s. Civilian employees being locked down, working 6 day workweeks, and having their movements restricted without any overtime compensation.
        Last edited by waffledog47; 06-20-2020, 02:31 PM.

        Comment


        • waffledog47
          waffledog47 commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for finding that case. Yeah, that's 100% true and it's been litigated already. It's beyond me how the idiots at DHS upper management are allowing this whole thing to happen exactly as it did a decade ago. Since it is pre-scheduled, it must incur OT pay.. I believe after that lawsuit everyone even got backpay with interest because FLETC was on for 6 days for a long time in the early-mid 2000s.

          I was also referring to the general lockdown and confinement to quarters that's going on (to include the 6th day). The other case in question that I can't recall was when USBP agents filed something because they were confined to various posts after their shifts and not allowed to return home, but were not compensated, sort of like what's going on at FLETC right now.

        • boilerpilot
          boilerpilot commented
          Editing a comment
          Yeah, I'd think someone at the agency would point out that this has been an issue in the past...who knows.

          I'm not an expert with the Border Patrol issue, but I think it's come across my radar before. If I remember correctly, it was the requirement to stay at Forward Operating Bases (FOB) past a normal tour of duty without any premium pay or compensation.There's an OIG report that briefly talks about the scheduling: https://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/...6-37-Feb16.pdf

          I think the applicable law for holding students on campus without pay would be in Title 5 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/5545) Again, I'm not an armchair lawyer, but standby pay seems appropriate if there's no option to leave. Just my opinion--it's worth what you paid for it.

        • DoD88
          DoD88 commented
          Editing a comment
          I just don't get it. It's like FLETC said...hey let's lock everyone down on campus and not give them any compensation for doing so and oh yeah that 6th day they have to work...let's not pay them for that either..smh.

        • waffledog47
          waffledog47 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yup, you found that case too - that's the one. My man with the googling skills, haha. You don't need to be an armchair lawyer to read the statute though. The actual statute, not some agency policy or CFR, says clearly that standby pay is required. This isn't the military - these are civilian federal employees. If FLEOA isn't already involved in filing lawsuits and getting this **** moving, then they need to be. Both these issues have been litigated already and were decided in favor of the employees, and yet we are back to square one with each.

      • #84
        Rumors are flying everywhere here on the ground in Artesia.
        Last edited by ArchStanton; 06-20-2020, 06:57 PM.

        Comment


        • Chifan12
          Chifan12 commented
          Editing a comment
          Please explain. ROM back in place? It was always in place at all campuses wasn't it? So classes are cancelled at Artesia only? When did people return there to quarantine?

        • Chifan12
          Chifan12 commented
          Editing a comment
          Rumors of what?

        • DRohn167
          DRohn167 commented
          Editing a comment
          What’s the word down there?

      • #85
        Originally posted by ArchStanton View Post
        Rumors are flying everywhere here on the ground in Artesia.

        Really low rent of you to post something like this without any background info.

        Comment


        • Chifan12
          Chifan12 commented
          Editing a comment
          No ****. That was my thought too. Before they edited the post they said they had confirmed classes were cancelled this coming week and ROM was being reinstated....which is why I responded the way I did. I've checked with multiple contacts at Glynco and none have heard anything about anything.

        • DRohn167
          DRohn167 commented
          Editing a comment
          Is there any real news/updates from Artesia? I only ask because I’m one of the classes who was sworn in virtually and am on standby until they start bringing more classes back and am just curious as to when that may be. Taking advantage of the time I’ve been afforded with fitness etc. but haven’t heard anything since swearing in. Most of the talk on the forums is in regard to Glynco.

        • DoD88
          DoD88 commented
          Editing a comment
          An instructor tested positive for COVID on Artesia. Glynco had 3 students and a contract worker test positive as of June 15th and sounds like we might have some more soon. Charleston had a contract worker and FLETC employee test positive. Meanwhile, Glynco just got a new wave of students and instructors with zero testing.

      • #86
        Ill be that guy and maybe an assumption on my part.

        FLETC doesnt pay your paycheck.... unless you are a DHS employee.

        Im guessing most here are not. Therefore your pay fight is with individual agency and not "FLETC is locking me down and not paying me for it". Best of luck with duking it out with HR, I know its a uphill fight even if you are right.

        Comment


        • boilerpilot
          boilerpilot commented
          Editing a comment
          You're absolutely correct. FLETC is a component of DHS and is the 'landlord' while various agencies (some within and others outside of DHS) are the 'tenant' and have to play by FLETC's rules. This doesn't absolve anyone of violating labor laws.

          CBP (OFO) trains at FLETC--any training before or after the training day (0730-1630) or on weekends incurs overtime. There's never a question about it.

          I also agree that duking it out with HR would probably be fruitless. Once it has been brought to the attention of agency management (for whichever agency is violating the law) and is not addressed, an employee would have to file suit for all concerned, or an organization such as FLEOA could step in and start the ball rolling.

          It's just surprising that we need to jump through any of these hoops since it has been litigated before and decided in favor of the students. Seems petty and unnecessary in my opinion.
          Last edited by boilerpilot; 06-21-2020, 07:45 PM.

      • #87
        So, anyone else listen to the town hall today? Thoughts on scheduling?
        From what I interpreted from the Asst. Dir. of Training, it sounds like the scheduling team basically did a hard-reset on all "pre-reserved training seats" for future level 1-basic courses that had already been tentatively on the books and are re-allocating training seats based on the prioritized needs of the partner agencies. Sounds like their goal for FY21 is still to get as many CITP/UTPT/other Level 1 etc classes through as possible.

        You can watch it for yourself here.... liveevents.fletc.gov
        Last edited by Jagger3939; 06-25-2020, 08:33 PM.

        Comment


        • Jagger3939
          Jagger3939 commented
          Editing a comment
          I’ll be curious if with them raising capacities and only holding basic courses if they will actually increase throughput of basic courses. The agency I’m processing with was supposed to have a class in May and another in September. Up until now I anticipated those basic courses wouldn’t probably schedule until next year, but I wonder if the backlog timeline will actually be expedited.

        • DoD88
          DoD88 commented
          Editing a comment
          Jagger3939 I can tell you for a fact that they are full of it. I watched it and they were saying things that are supposedly occurring and I can tell you it is not accurate. I'm not going to go into details on here but believe me...the reopening isn't going they way they make it seem at all. It's mind boggling that they are acting like it's a success and want to bring more people.

        • ainokea808
          ainokea808 commented
          Editing a comment
          I was a little confused by what they were saying...is it still no NEW classes at least until new FY? Or were they saying they trying to expedite that and make it earlier?

        • Jagger3939
          Jagger3939 commented
          Editing a comment
          I interpreted that they are focusing on getting the existing classes done, which should be caught up in the next couple of months, and then will focus ALL of their efforts on new basic courses. The Asst Dir. said the focus on new basic classes would continue well into FY21. So, I don't think there is any waiting.

      • #88
        Jagger3939, ok that's how interpreted it too. Sounds like they wanna get all the existing classes in and finished (they are like the guinea pigs). Then in about 90 days, when the classes are finished, they will start bringing in NEW classes (which will be about October, FY21).

        Comment


        • Jagger3939
          Jagger3939 commented
          Editing a comment
          Entirely just my speculation — but I don’t think they will wait until October. Some of the classes that returned were in later stages of training, so as they finish, new classes will be brought in. They also discussed increasing capacities/students on center. But I agree with what your saying.

      • #89
        I guess the Artesia rumors had to do with FLETC shutting the place down again.

        Comment


        • RetVet
          RetVet commented
          Editing a comment
          Seeing their social media posts about what they’re doing to mitigate Covid compared to what you actually see them doing on campus is laughable.

        • DoD88
          DoD88 commented
          Editing a comment
          RetVet Exactly. It is all a facade. I saw on the FLETC Facebook page where they had people touring the chow hall to see all of the COVID procedures, but of course they don't tour it in the middle of the lunch hour.

        • RetVet
          RetVet commented
          Editing a comment
          It’s clear that not all shared equipment is getting cleaned going from person to person. It’s also clear that ROM students who are still not tested is eating at the same time as the training students who already started.

        • invertedPanda
          invertedPanda commented
          Editing a comment
          The whole ROM eating with the out of ROM students doesn't even matter really. FLETC spent how much money putting down footprints and signs on the ground where to stand to only implement that for one week before throwing that idea out the window and going back to regular nut to butt chow lines lol

      • #90
        So does this mean more basic classes for thepartner agencies or the same amount?

        Comment


        • onemalinwah
          onemalinwah commented
          Editing a comment
          I decided to post after following this thread throughout this entire COVID situation. Hopefully I can provide *some* context and clarity instead of speculation so I’ll lay out any facts I do know.

          I was scheduled for CITP the fourth week of March. The week prior, FLETC was evacuated. I do know for a fact all CITP classes that were stopped and sent home are returning to base (Glynco) by the end of THIS week. That info is coming from guys in those classes ahead of me from my field office who reported back to base to resume their training over this past weekend. My class was up next to report (pre-COVID). I haven’t heard when I’m going, but like I said I was originally in a MARCH class. I know from reading on this thread there are people on here from April/May/June classes.

        • 1811HopefulDC
          1811HopefulDC commented
          Editing a comment
          @anikea that is exactly how the HR folk I am with and how a FLETC instructor explained it to me.

          A new class would be wine that was already scheduled/agencies were told they would have.

          With the townhall or whatever you want to call it last week it appears they will be moving forward with, previously unscheduled basic classes in the future.

          We were supposed to be a July class and we are being told hopefully October

        • RJflyer
          RJflyer commented
          Editing a comment
          DHS still doesn't have an FY21 budget, right? Does FLETC historically develop schedules and disseminate them to partner agencies for planning before they have an approved budget or CR? I'm just wondering if we can reasonably expect to hear anything official about dates until the budget is passed.

        • 1811HopefulDC
          1811HopefulDC commented
          Editing a comment
          No, DHS does not have a budget yet. I don’t think that a lack of a budget would prevent them from doing a yearly schedule or they would never have one. DHS budget is almost always contentious or one of the last to be filled. Good agency to work for but always questions.

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