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  • hawaiitexas
    commented on 's reply
    If you have been to CITP you don't have to go to a seasonal academy. You would have to find the rare all sources job posting and apply. CITP counts and you would just have to go to the 2 week NPS Ranger Orientation at FLETC and probably do field training. All sources announcements (that don't require a NPS commission) are rare and most jobs are posted as a screen out that requires a Type 2 (seasonal academy) commission to even be able to apply. But, there are occasional openings that don't require a NPS commission and are open to the public.
    Last edited by hawaiitexas; 08-24-2018, 04:51 PM.

  • hawaiitexas
    commented on 's reply
    The Academies are nothing like you described anymore, it is basically a mirror of FLETC LMPT. And Seasonal Rangers are mostly hired at GS-05 Step 8 or GS-07 and generally make around 20 dollars an hour plus health insurance.

  • Ratatatat
    replied
    There's always isolated instances, usually scenarios where so and so is a well-known entity by the hiring official, heck, maybe even best drinking buddy with the hiring official, and the slot was theirs before it was even advertised.


    I'd like to know the percentage though of NPS SAs who lateralled into 1811 jobs. I bet it is very small, like 2%. In comparison, the number of laterals for FWS 1811s is probably 30%. HSI loves laterals like groundhogs love sunshine. And some small shops, like FDA, nearly every 1811 is a lateral.

    Leave a comment:


  • orlandofed5-0
    replied
    Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post

    Really? Hmmm. Most NPS SAs I've crossed paths with came up through the ranks.... GS-5 seasonal ranger, eventually permanent GS-7/9 ranger, then GS-11 LE Specialist, then GS-12 SA (are they still 12s, btw? I don't have much interaction anymore).

    I know that anything is possible in the G though, and FBI of course is huge on a resume, but NPS has always seemed VERY insular in who they hire, especially laterals for higher grade positions, well past the point of just being parochial about the brand. Kinda like a cult.... how can you be a Thetan Level VIII when you were never a Thetan Level I??!
    He for years wanted to do NRLE but didn't want to take a pay cut and do some of the other jobs of being a ranger. He ended up working in CA/HI as an NPS 1811. He went to DoI IG probably because of the issues within NPS.

    Leave a comment:


  • CCCSD
    replied
    Maybe he was Lambda Lambda Lambda..?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ratatatat
    replied
    Originally posted by orlandofed5-0 View Post
    I know an FBI SA who became an NPS SA then DoI IG 1811
    Really? Hmmm. Most NPS SAs I've crossed paths with came up through the ranks.... GS-5 seasonal ranger, eventually permanent GS-7/9 ranger, then GS-11 LE Specialist, then GS-12 SA (are they still 12s, btw? I don't have much interaction anymore).

    I know that anything is possible in the G though, and FBI of course is huge on a resume, but NPS has always seemed VERY insular in who they hire, especially laterals for higher grade positions, well past the point of just being parochial about the brand. Kinda like a cult.... how can you be a Thetan Level VIII when you were never a Thetan Level I??!

    Leave a comment:


  • orlandofed5-0
    replied
    I know an FBI SA who became an NPS SA then DoI IG 1811

    Leave a comment:


  • Ratatatat
    replied
    Originally posted by hangman View Post
    I don't think it would be wise for an 1811(battlewagon) to quit and go to a seasonal academy.....does anyone know of any 1811's who were crazy enough to do something like that?

    Believe it or not, these NPS seasonal academies are now 700+ hours and they basically follow the FLETC LMPT curriculum and testing standards. You have to pass the FLETC PEB to graduate too. You fail a test, you get a remedial. You fail again and you are done.

    To go from $120K/year to $7-8K, no TSP, no 6c, no health care, in the hopes of someday landing a permanent GS-9 job would be virtually unheard of.

    Plus there are other aspects to consider: instead of reporting to a GS-14, he'd be reporting to a GS-9. Instead of investigating large scale criminal enterprises, he'd be investigating who shot a boundary sign, or responding to drunks in the campground. Instead of briefing AUSAs for months about a case, he'd be briefing one for the first time ten minutes before the case was presented on the CVB docket in US Magistrate Court.

    But to each their own. We all live our own lives and make decisions accordingly.

    I will say this: I am familiar with a couple of Trust Fund Baby situations, where the seasonal rangers had inherited crazy money and worked only because they liked being part of something bigger then themselves. The job for them was basically a hobby, something to do that gave purpose to their lives. During the winter season, they skied and partied in Jackson Hole or went rafting in New Zealand. The summer ranger gig was just an extension of their never-ending adventure lifestyles.


    RE: 700 hour seasonal academies that wash people out: wow, times have changed. Mine was hacky-sack in the hall in jeans and sandals. I see that some of them also POST certify, which is a bonus... at least graduates can get employment with a local agency if the ranger dream doesn't work out....


    Last edited by Ratatatat; 08-24-2018, 12:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • hangman
    replied
    I don't think it would be wise for an 1811(battlewagon) to quit and go to a seasonal academy.....does anyone know of any 1811's who were crazy enough to do something like that?

    Believe it or not, these NPS seasonal academies are now 700+ hours and they basically follow the FLETC LMPT curriculum and testing standards. You have to pass the FLETC PEB to graduate too. You fail a test, you get a remedial. You fail again and you are done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ratatatat
    replied
    Originally posted by hawaiitexas View Post
    Here are some links to check out:
    http://www.anpr.org/Seasonal-Law-Enf...aining-Program
    http://www.southwesterncc.edu/pstc/l...rk-service-nps

    The second link is to the seasonal academy I recommend, it is very cost effective. If you are serious about this, you will want to apply early as seats can be hard to come by. You are going to have to put yourself through a seasonal academy as direct hires are super rare and usually are associated with a big push to hire Rangers for Border parks.

    $1,650 for tuition plus the cost of room and board for 17 weeks. All that to get a summer job that pays $13.87 per hour....

    But the seasonal academy has been a spring board for many careers, including mine. It was all of 8 weeks and cost $250 (we're talking 1989).

    Of all my long academy experiences (five), the NPS seasonal academy was the easiest. No morning inspections with dog breath instructors in your face. No debasing petty mind games. It was kinda like summer camp- chill vibe, everyone in a good mood, go shoot some guns and drive fast and wrestle in the mat room. Instructors were local cops happy to be making $20/hour on the side and the legal stuff was taught by a local criminal defense attorney who probably never won a case in court. Everyone passes all the tests, all the time.

    My class had 20 people, but as far as I know, only 4 actually made a career out of. One became Chief of a one man department in central Minnesota. One went NPS. One went to a sheriff's office in Wisconsin. And me.

    The school pretty much let anyone who coughed up $250 go through the training. There was an old hippy who used to braid his long hair like Willie Nelson. Watching him practice motor vehicle stops made me crack up... I kept expecting him to start singing "Blue Eyes Crying In the Rain" or "On the Road Again." There was another dude who was constantly sucking on his inhaler. Not sure how he got passed the physical. And there was one guy who literally didn't use words- just sounds like "mmmmf" or "hrrrrrpf". Not sure where he ended up but I suspect it was a job that didn't involve much human interaction.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ratatatat
    commented on 's reply
    Whatever happened with your girlfriend and her ex-boyfriend galavanting about Europe situation??

  • wildlife97
    replied
    "Hmmm. Maybe it's the just circle of people I know. Many have been 'pigeonholed' because of undesirable locations and despite years of trying to promote or just transfer, they've been typecast as a "Lake Mead" ranger, an "St. Louis Arch" ranger, a "southwest border" ranger, a "cannonball park" ranger, on and on."

    Yes this is still the case with many in the NPS.

    If you spend too much time at a busy Nat'l Rec Area like Lake Mead or Whiskeytown you won't have much luck transferring to a sleepy park that never makes arrests.

    Spend too much time at a "cannonball park" (aka historic site) then you won't have much luck transferring to a busy park that makes arrests daily.

    Of course this isn't policy it's more the mindset of some hiring officials. The mindset being those who work at busy places will be too high speed for a sleepy place, or those who work at a historic site won't be able to maintain the high speed pace of a busy park. It's as if they believe some people can't turn "it" on or off.

    It would be the equivalent of a 10-year NYPD vet who wants to work for a small town PD in Montana. Instead of asking why he wants to work for a small-town in Montana and finding out he wants a slower pace, they just assume he will be too high speed and will cause issues and isn't interviewed/hired.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ratatatat
    commented on 's reply
    "Not to be one of those guys who only talks about home, but having just had our first kid, and two very old parents, one of which is isn't doing well, getting home is very important and the reason I started looking again."

    Well, family is everything. Good luck.

  • Ratatatat
    commented on 's reply
    "I disagree with a few, mainly that you get "stuck" somewhere. The NPS doesn't make you work anywhere, you can lateral or apply to any open position. If you are "stuck" somewhere you are just an idiot. People that are at boring historic sites are there because that's what they want. "

    Hmmm. Maybe it's the just circle of people I know. Many have been 'pigeonholed' because of undesirable locations and despite years of trying to promote or just transfer, they've been typecast as a "Lake Mead" ranger, an "St. Louis Arch" ranger, a "southwest border" ranger, a "cannonball park" ranger, on and on.

    In full disclosure, others (albeit fewer) have been able to get their ideal NPS job: a great park in a great place. Not Yosemite Valley crazy but not Raisin River Natl Battlefield quiet either. Places like Bandelier NM or Sleeping Bear Dunes NL or Crater Lake NP. Perfect job, perfect place, perfect life....

    My bigger point is this: the cookie doesn't crumble the same for everyone. Sometimes it's a reflection on the person- lacking skillsets, lacking ambition, lacking connections, etc., but sometimes it's just how things work out.

    I'm not trying to pee in anyone's bowl of Wheaties. Follow the dream. Go be awesome. Just be ready for the day when you look in the mirror and realize that not everyone gets to fall in love with life and drink from the fountain; some have to pour like an avalanche coming down the mountain.

  • battlewagon
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for the great insight Rat. I'm only considering it through a connection that would land me in a park close to home. Besides missing being outdoors and in middle of nowhere with Border Patrol, the home part is the defining reason for the move.

    I am happy where I am at, position is good, office is good, etc. But I have spoken to guys in my SAC who eventually made it back to the same SAC region I am from, and they are all 10+ years. Way I see it is if I can land a park near home, I can likely pick up an 1811 NPS in the same region near home having Ranger time + CITP under the belt, before I get home with my current gig.

    Not to be one of those guys who only talks about home, but having just had our first kid, and two very old parents, one of which is isn't doing well, getting home is very important and the reason I started looking again.

    Rest assured though Rat, your insight and advice is not falling on deaf ears. Thank you for it.

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