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  • Disqualification

    Hello, first I apologize ahead of time if this topic has already been discussed recently, any additional links are appreciated.

    I have wanted to be an LEO since I was 8, I got the chance to serve in an emergency management agency, a VIP organization, and for a short time was a police reserve, served 12 years in the U.S. Army as an infantryman, combat engineer, and military police traffic investigator, then I made probably the biggest mistake of my life, and late in life at age 28.

    I have a basic understanding that class a misdemeanors if minor are sometimes overlooked, but I've also seen some more severe ones waived also.

    Long story short- I was convicted of one in 2011, not domestic violence or drug related. I said the wrong thing to the wrong person, it would be seen as a moral turpitude issue by most departments. I'll leave it at that unless someone wants to message me directly outside an open forum.

    I did 1 year of probation, and paid all my dues before I was even finished with probation. I have not said or done the wrong thing ever since. I volunteer in my community and always look for other opportunities to volunteer also. Since my trouble I went to college and received a bachelors degree, and I am 7 credits shy of my masters degree.

    I also understand that time gone by is a help with getting hired after a misdemeanor.

    I have looked at the Alaska State Troopers, and Colorado police departments in the last few years, and also have a letter/waiver from AST stating I'm aloud to participate in their academy if I'm hired considering my conviction, but only after 10 years after conviction date. That is 2021 for me.

    I don't want one huge mistake to define me, and would like my chance to get back to LEO work.

    Is it possible?
    What other departments would be lenient?
    What other things should I be doing and preparing for?
    Anything constructive that anyone can contribute?

  • #2
    I don't fully get what "I said the wrong thing to the wrong person" entails and how it can result in a crime of moral turpitude, a misdemeanor conviction and a year of probation, but whatev. I can't blame you for not blabbing about the details on a public forum. It's probably embarrassing, despite the anonymity.

    Are there agencies that would be more lenient? Sure, I've seen little departments in backwater corners hire people with questionable pasts. I've seen bigger ones do it too. As long the applicant could fog a mirror and only had jail time- not penitentiary time- on their record, they were good to go. Low pay and crummy working conditions makes it tough to find applicants without skeletons in their closets. The community gets what they pay for though, and it's reflected in who gets hired.

    So roll the dice, apply everywhere, lay out the facts, and see what happens. It it's meant to be, it will happen.

    But if it's not meant to be, then recognize such and move on. The world is full of people with sterling resumes and exceptional backgrounds who ultimately were denied the job they always wanted (see: Clinton, Hillary). Not everyone gets to live their dream.

    Keep in mind success and happiness aren't dependent on your job title, not in the long run. Being honest with yourself is.





    People get on, people get off, but the train never stops.

    Comment


    • #3
      Be honest about it and let the cards fall where they may. I work and have worked with Agents who were arrested in college for dumb stuff and two at my last agency who were arrested for misdimeanors (one got jail time) and they are still around. The coverup is usually worse than the crimes, and no one is without their issues.

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      • #4
        One clarification on this, or maybe a caveat....

        If "saying the wrong thing to the wrong person" involved a minor and that's what resulted in a misdemeanor conviction for a crime of moral turpitude, then I'd say you're pretty much toast. Any efforts to rehab such a past for a job in LE is a waste of time and energy.
        People get on, people get off, but the train never stops.

        Comment


        • #5
          First of all, I sincerely thank you for your service to this great nation. That having been said, the misdemeanor list of 'crimes of moral turpitude' is a short one. It includes things like fraud, perjury / false statement, theft, bad checks, and obstructing judicial process. I cannot find a single crime under this heading whose elements include any spoken word, no matter who it was spoken to or in front of.

          For hiring and immigration purposes, the U.S. government and courts have determined the following to be crimes of moral turpitude.
          • murder
          • voluntary manslaughter
          • involuntary manslaughter, in some cases
          • rape
          • spousal abuse
          • child abuse
          • incest
          • kidnapping
          • robbery
          • aggravated assault
          • mayhem
          • animal fighting
          • theft
          • fraud, and
          • conspiracy, attempt, or acting as an accessory to a crime if that crime involved moral turpitude.

          Ratatatat poses an interesting scenario, but if it was some type of solicitation, that would more likely than not be classified as a sex crime and not moral turpitude. So as the saying goes, There's More To The Story.

          “This life’s hard, but it’s harder if you’re stupid.”

          George V. Higgins--The Friends of Eddie Coyle

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          • #6
            Ok, well I guess I will lay it on the table as suggested in another comment. I only refrain from saying anything on a public forum because it is quite embarrassing, and some human mistakes leave us feeling horrible even 5 years later.

            The crime of moral turpitude was impersonation of a public servant. It is seen as a felony, but my charges were reduced to the class a misdemeanor because I was in no way trying to act like a cop. I was amongst other officers when I was questioned and I simply stated I was one, when at the time I was not.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jason.kent1983 View Post
              The crime of moral turpitude was impersonation of a public servant. It is seen as a felony, but my charges were reduced to the class a misdemeanor because I was in no way trying to act like a cop. I was amongst other officers when I was questioned and I simply stated I was one, when at the time I was not.
              Well, it's good it doesn't involve a minor, which I assumed was the deal since you referenced "minor" in your original question. I take it you meant minor as in "minor violation". My bad.

              I'm sure there's a whole other narrative that goes along with it, a narrative which was presented to a judge or jury, and you were allowed to present a defense. The facts and circumstances were then weighed and a decision was made.

              I have no interest in the details, as you're someone I do not know or ever will. I'm just a guy on an internet forum whose seen a thing or two who is willing to pass on a little wisdom before the curtain falls.

              I've seen people get hired following convictions for MIP, DUI, simple assault, retail theft, and others. Some were damn lucky, some had legitimate explanations. Some had inside connections looking out for them, others talked a good game about being young and stupid once and learning from mistakes. Like a golf game, most departments will allow for one mulligan.

              If you keep getting rejection letter after rejection letter stating that conviction was the reason for disqualification, then maybe it's a sign it's not in the cards.


              As Judge Smails once said, "The world needs ditch diggers too."



              People get on, people get off, but the train never stops.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jason.kent1983 View Post
                Ok, well I guess I will lay it on the table as suggested in another comment. I only refrain from saying anything on a public forum because it is quite embarrassing, and some human mistakes leave us feeling horrible even 5 years later.

                The crime of moral turpitude was impersonation of a public servant. It is seen as a felony, but my charges were reduced to the class a misdemeanor because I was in no way trying to act like a cop. I was amongst other officers when I was questioned and I simply stated I was one, when at the time I was not.
                Is impersonation of a public servant defined as a crime of moral turpitude in the state where you are applying? Here, that falls more under a disorderly conduct.

                “This life’s hard, but it’s harder if you’re stupid.”

                George V. Higgins--The Friends of Eddie Coyle

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                • #9
                  Thanks for your input Ratatatat...glad to know it is at least worth it to give it another try.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Slamdunc I researched what it would be, and AST defined it as that. The state I live in defines it as that I believe also.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you plead guilty as part of a plea agreement to reduce the charge from a felony, that too is something which will be taken into consideration.
                      People get on, people get off, but the train never stops.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not sure how it exactly went down. My lawyer requested the reduced charge due to lack of criminal history and details of the events. I accepted a plea for a class a misdemeanor, never saw a plea for it to be reduced. Not sure if it is the same thing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Same thing. What will be inferred is you copped a plea to avoid a more serious charge. That's different than being found guilty of a misdemeanor charge after presenting your defense. Had the latter been the case, your account of what happened might hold some weight, even if the court determined otherwise.

                          Now you can't minimize what happened, because it's already been minimized. If you try to, it's a bad reflection on you. All you can do is fully accept responsibility, if you want to be taken seriously.

                          Bottom line is, often it's a roll of the dice how these things work out. Some people live charmed existences where nothing seems to get in their way. Others get their big plans derailed by the smallest of things. All you can do is give it a shot, and if it doesn't work out, move on.

                          I have a couple of old buddies who, back in the day, wanted nothing more than to be in LE. John wanted to join the FBI more than anything. Ken wanted to be a state trooper more than anything. I'll spare all the details, but both got jammed up after making stupid decisions and their LE dreams ended. But life went on and both went on to have successful careers, and now they live in much bigger houses than had their original plans worked out....
                          People get on, people get off, but the train never stops.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks again for your info, much appreciated.

                            Anyone else that that wants to chime in please do.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There's also private security you can look into...Brinks, Loomis...these companies value military service. Perhaps apply some of the skills you've acquired and they offer good benefits from what I hear.

                              On your past 'matter'....I read these threads with incredulity some times. You've always wanted to work in LE, sacrificed for our country for a dozen years, have past experience in LE.

                              Per what you've shared; you make a silly remark amongst those who you'd wish to be and a part of...and the book gets thrown at you.

                              Yeah, you certainly said something to someone with a major stick up their *ss.

                              Unbelievable.

                              Don't be so hard on yourself. Give it all a shot.

                              Thank you for your service and being a Patriot in hard times.

                              Comment

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