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  • Originally posted by jimdvs View Post
    The experience you bring to the table is great but it is just another piece of the puzzle they are trying to put together to assist them in determining if they are going to recommend hiring or rejecting a candidate. The interviewers are constantly taking notes, either written notes or mental notes that they will jot down after the interview is complete to assist in their justification to continue or BQA the candidate. It is good you bring the experience to the table but it is just one piece of the puzzle, they are rating you on many other areas throughout the interview.

    As for “pulling the trigger” during a protective detail....well the reality of it is that would be one of the last things they would want you to do. “Pulling the trigger” would actually be more useful in a raid or criminal investigative setting as opposed to a protective detail. I won't get into specifics regarding how or why they would react a certain way during a threat to their protectee, lethal or less than lethal. But one thing you can research for yourself is to look at past assassination attempts on U.S. leaders and you will see the protective detail very, very rarely stops the threat with firearms. I’m not saying certain individuals on a protective detail didn’t draw their firearm but they did not use their firearm to stop the threat. In fact the last time the USSS used firearms to thwart an assassination attempt was during the Truman administration at the Blair House. Of course you could also count the Chester Plumber and Robert Pickett incidents where each was shot by a USSS-UD Officer on or near the White House grounds but I don't think the USSS classifies those as assassination attempts because of the weapons each was using and their proximity to the protectee. This information regarding assassination attempts, including the ones I mentioned are readily available on the internet and are obviously unclassified information but it will give you a good idea about how little firearms are used during assassination attempts in our society.
    You are right to an extent. The agents closest to the protectee more than likely will not fire their weapon because their mission is to get that protectee out of harms way. The agents away from the protectee will mainly be the ones identifying the target, which most of the time, will require a quick decision as to is that the target, and a even quicker decision to eliminate. I think I have the mentally of quick elimination because I was a sniper, and thats all I really know is how to acquire my target and eliminate. I know the experience is just one piece of the puzzle, but at the same time, a person can be highly qualified with all the tangibles to be a strong agent, but if that agent doesnt have what it takes to protect, that agent will not be a good fit for USSS, but other agencies indeed.
    God Bless America

    101st Airborne Division, Rakassans Air Assaultttttttt
    3rd Infantry Division, 2BCT

    ICE 1811
    Applied: 6/22/09
    Exam: 7/24/2009
    SI/WA: 3/2/2010
    The Call: October 26, 2010
    PRESIDIO BOUND!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jlac20 View Post
      You are right to an extent. The agents closest to the protectee more than likely will not fire their weapon because their mission is to get that protectee out of harms way. The agents away from the protectee will mainly be the ones identifying the target, which most of the time, will require a quick decision as to is that the target, and a even quicker decision to eliminate. I think I have the mentally of quick elimination because I was a sniper, and thats all I really know is how to acquire my target and eliminate. I know the experience is just one piece of the puzzle, but at the same time, a person can be highly qualified with all the tangibles to be a strong agent, but if that agent doesnt have what it takes to protect, that agent will not be a good fit for USSS, but other agencies indeed.
      To an extent? What extent? Ok, tell me when the last time a USSS-SA used lethal force during an assassination attempt, inner or outer perimeter. If you think you can take a sniper mentality into a protective assignment because all you know is to acquire your target and eliminate it then maybe you won't be a good fit for the USSS. Or maybe you need to learn another way of confronting a threat in a protective environment. Or maybe you'd be a better fit for the USSS-UD Countersniper team.

      Comment


      • .

        Originally posted by jlac20 View Post
        You are right to an extent. The agents closest to the protectee more than likely will not fire their weapon because their mission is to get that protectee out of harms way. The agents away from the protectee will mainly be the ones identifying the target, which most of the time, will require a quick decision as to is that the target, and a even quicker decision to eliminate. I think I have the mentally of quick elimination because I was a sniper, and thats all I really know is how to acquire my target and eliminate. I know the experience is just one piece of the puzzle, but at the same time, a person can be highly qualified with all the tangibles to be a strong agent, but if that agent doesnt have what it takes to protect, that agent will not be a good fit for USSS, but other agencies indeed.
        I understand and agree where you are coming from. I think the USSS is really looking for candidates with real work experience. During my home interview I brought up the fact that I was worried about my timing in applying due to the economy being so bad and people coming from every angle to apply. He told me that it was a huge plus that I had been established and had several years of work experience. He said that there were tons of people applying with no work experience and that they were getting dropped quickly. Also, about the weapons experience, I am local LEO and was involved in a shooting this past year where one of the two suspects was killed. I was telling someone just the other day that it really stuck out to me how interested they were in the incident. During my initial I was asked about it, and I hadn't even put it in my paperwork (it happened b/t applying and initial). During my panel, I was told that they wanted to talk about it, but wanted to wait until I was in the room with the other SA's so they could hear it. During my poly, it was the first thing they brought up to discuss. Do I think they are looking solely for weapons experience, no. But I do think they are looking for a mix of people, including those with good work experience.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jimdvs View Post
          To an extent? What extent? Ok, tell me when the last time a USSS-SA used lethal force during an assassination attempt, inner or outer perimeter. If you think you can take a sniper mentality into a protective assignment because all you know is to acquire your target and eliminate it then maybe you won't be a good fit for the USSS. Or maybe you need to learn another way of confronting a threat in a protective environment. Or maybe you'd be a better fit for the USSS-UD Countersniper team.
          The only way to confront a threat is to eliminate, there is no in between. I have been assigned to protective details so I do know a little something about protection. It doesnt matter when was the last time a SA used lethal force, what matters is that Agents willingness to use lethal force. One thing about snipers is that snipers are very observant, and every agent on a protective detail must be very observant also. Snipers are always on alert, and so are the Agents on a protective detail. So with you saying having a sniper mentality may not be a good fit i feel is very irrelevant. Also with you wanting alternative methods to deal with a threat lets me know that you will hesitate when it comes to making such decisions. I just hope you dont hesitate at the wrong time, because surely someone out to harm you are someone you're protecting surely isnt going to hesitate.
          God Bless America

          101st Airborne Division, Rakassans Air Assaultttttttt
          3rd Infantry Division, 2BCT

          ICE 1811
          Applied: 6/22/09
          Exam: 7/24/2009
          SI/WA: 3/2/2010
          The Call: October 26, 2010
          PRESIDIO BOUND!!!!!!!!!!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jlac20 View Post
            The only way to confront a threat is to eliminate, there is no in between. I have been assigned to protective details so I do know a little something about protection. It doesnt matter when was the last time a SA used lethal force, what matters is that Agents willingness to use lethal force. One thing about snipers is that snipers are very observant, and every agent on a protective detail must be very observant also. Snipers are always on alert, and so are the Agents on a protective detail. So with you saying having a sniper mentality may not be a good fit i feel is very irrelevant. Also with you wanting alternative methods to deal with a threat lets me know that you will hesitate when it comes to making such decisions. I just hope you dont hesitate at the wrong time, because surely someone out to harm you are someone you're protecting surely isnt going to hesitate.
            I'm not here to argue with you but to point out that you need to think they were more interested in your "pulling the trigger" experience on the investigative side of their mission as opposed to the protective side because the investigative side is where the USSS has had the majorty of their lethal force confrontations. I never said anything about "alternative methods" when it comes to using lethal force during protection, I just showed historical facts that support my arguement that there have been very few times when lethal force was used to stop an assassination attempt. Again, research the history of assassinations and assassination attempts in our society and you'll see the amount of times lethal force was used to stop a threat, and those times are very minimal. You were not talking about observation skills until now, but yes those are important skills in both the investigative and protective arenas. By the way, I am not the person to question when it comes to decision making, I'm retired from FED LE, did my time with the USSS as well so I know the job very well. So go in to training with your "shoot 'em up" mentality, it will go over well during the protection portion of your training at Beltsville.
            Last edited by jimdvs; 12-22-2009, 09:52 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jimdvs View Post
              I'm not hear to argue with you but to point out that you need to think they were more interested in your "pulling the trigger" experience on the investigative side of their mission as opposed to the protective side. You were not talking about observation skills until now, but yes those are important skills in both the investigative and protective arenas. Again, research the history of assassinations and assassination attempts and you'll see the amount of times lethal force was used to stop a threat. By the way, I am not the person to question when it comes to decision making, I'm retired from FED LE, did my time with the USSS as well so I know the job very well. So go in to training with your "shoot 'em up" mentality, it will go over well at Beltsville.
              Why am I even arguing with a washed up fed...lol nah let me stop, dont take offense to that because im only clowning. I didnt say anything about a shoot em up mentality. I said you can not hesitate to pull the trigger. I never said thats all they were interested in was pulling the trigger experience, I said it seemed to get their attention a little more as to the circumstances surrounding my firing of a weapon on duty. I have researched the history of assassinations and attempted assassinations, and we all know if someone takes a shot at a protectee, there is no saying "stop police drop your weapon".
              God Bless America

              101st Airborne Division, Rakassans Air Assaultttttttt
              3rd Infantry Division, 2BCT

              ICE 1811
              Applied: 6/22/09
              Exam: 7/24/2009
              SI/WA: 3/2/2010
              The Call: October 26, 2010
              PRESIDIO BOUND!!!!!!!!!!

              Comment


              • Here is your quote, "Considering part of the job is protective details, they want individuals they know will pull the trigger." My point is that you will be more likely to pull a trigger in an investigative setting than a protective one, history backs up my statement. And you also stated, "The only way to confront a threat is to eliminate, there is no in between." in a protective setting is not true and shows you still have a lot to learn about protection. Tell you what, I'm finished discussing this because I've been where you are trying to get. So, if you graduate from Beltsville send me a PM here and if my points were not correct I'll buy you beers. However, if you come away from the protection training with a better understanding of how to deal with lethal force in a protection setting (which you will) then you can buy my beers. Start saving your money.......

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jimdvs View Post
                  Here is your quote, "Considering part of the job is protective details, they want individuals they know will pull the trigger." My point is that you will be more likely to pull a trigger in an investigative setting than a protective one, history backs up my statement. And you also stated, "The only way to confront a threat is to eliminate, there is no in between." in a protective setting is not true and shows you still have a lot to learn about protection. Tell you what, I'm finished discussing this because I've been where you are trying to get. So, if you graduate from Beltsville send me a PM here and if my points were not correct I'll buy you beers. However, if you come away from the protection training with a better understanding of how to deal with lethal force in a protection setting (which you will) then you can buy my beers. Start saving your money.......
                  I dont drink beer, but I drink Grey Goose, if im right or wrong, I dont mind buying beer for ya, as long as you got me the next time out...lol. Recently on the job, we been on the embarass one another mode, instead of buying drinks, We now bet our eyebrows. Imagine a coworker (Male) working around you with no eyebrows.
                  God Bless America

                  101st Airborne Division, Rakassans Air Assaultttttttt
                  3rd Infantry Division, 2BCT

                  ICE 1811
                  Applied: 6/22/09
                  Exam: 7/24/2009
                  SI/WA: 3/2/2010
                  The Call: October 26, 2010
                  PRESIDIO BOUND!!!!!!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • ................
                    Last edited by w8ing2hear; 12-23-2009, 04:18 PM.
                    Applied USSS 1811 0809, TEA 1009, Initial 1109, BQA'd 1209

                    Applied Federal Agency 0083 0310, Phone 1010

                    Comment


                    • Cookie Cutter

                      The debate as to which "cookie cutter" SA applicant the agency is seeking does not apply. Having a well rounded workforce would benefit the agency. It would be foolish to make up a workforce of just "jarheads" or just "desk nerds". This is just my honest opinion. If you lack in one area the academy will bring you up to speed, or crush you - which ever comes first lol.

                      I was straight up with my interviewer and explained that I did not have any prior LE experience, I have only fired a gun a few times on a range in my free time, and have never had any formal combat training - he was fine with it. He told me that instructors would rather work with a blank slate than try and break someone's old habits. I have worked some club/bar security in the past and currently I am a federal employee. I told the interviewer that I felt my lack of LE experience was a weakness, but he assured me it wouldn't be. I might have just had a great interviewer at my initial.

                      They are getting candidates from all walks of life. I am just privileged to be in the process.
                      USSS 1811 SA Process
                      07/09 - Applied
                      10/09 - Scheduled TEA
                      11/09 - TEA Exam
                      12/09 - Initial
                      12/09 - COE
                      03/10 - Panel

                      FAM Process
                      Referred for selection...waiting

                      NCIS 1811 SA Process
                      01/10 - Applied

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by williamske View Post
                        The debate as to which "cookie cutter" SA applicant the agency is seeking does not apply. Having a well rounded workforce would benefit the agency. It would be foolish to make up a workforce of just "jarheads" or just "desk nerds". This is just my honest opinion. If you lack in one area the academy will bring you up to speed, or crush you - which ever comes first lol.

                        I was straight up with my interviewer and explained that I did not have any prior LE experience, I have only fired a gun a few times on a range in my free time, and have never had any formal combat training - he was fine with it. He told me that instructors would rather work with a blank slate than try and break someone's old habits. I have worked some club/bar security in the past and currently I am a federal employee. I told the interviewer that I felt my lack of LE experience was a weakness, but he assured me it wouldn't be. I might have just had a great interviewer at my initial.

                        They are getting candidates from all walks of life. I am just privileged to be in the process.
                        What you said about people with firearms experience is true. When I worked as a firearm instructor for my agency, those was the worse people, the ones with the experience. When u teach someone the agency way of shooting compared to perhaps military shooting, its a change. In the military, we can walk our ammunition up to a target on the battle field because we have that much ammo to do so, but in the outside law enforcement world we dont. We taught to be precise with each and every shot, and make it count. I remember when I went to FLETC the first time, soon as I would remove my firearm from the holster, I was firing at the bottom of the target because I was use to walking rounds up. The instructor laid into me a few times, but eventually I went back to ground zero and learned the law enforcement way of shooting. I think the only weapon you will fire the same from military and civilian law enforcement is the assault rifle, because no matter what, the aim of site is CENTER M. unless its a longer distance, then its a head shot.
                        God Bless America

                        101st Airborne Division, Rakassans Air Assaultttttttt
                        3rd Infantry Division, 2BCT

                        ICE 1811
                        Applied: 6/22/09
                        Exam: 7/24/2009
                        SI/WA: 3/2/2010
                        The Call: October 26, 2010
                        PRESIDIO BOUND!!!!!!!!!!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by williamske View Post
                          The debate as to which "cookie cutter" SA applicant the agency is seeking does not apply. Having a well rounded workforce would benefit the agency. It would be foolish to make up a workforce of just "jarheads" or just "desk nerds". This is just my honest opinion. If you lack in one area the academy will bring you up to speed, or crush you - which ever comes first lol.

                          I was straight up with my interviewer and explained that I did not have any prior LE experience, I have only fired a gun a few times on a range in my free time, and have never had any formal combat training - he was fine with it. He told me that instructors would rather work with a blank slate than try and break someone's old habits. I have worked some club/bar security in the past and currently I am a federal employee. I told the interviewer that I felt my lack of LE experience was a weakness, but he assured me it wouldn't be. I might have just had a great interviewer at my initial.

                          They are getting candidates from all walks of life. I am just privileged to be in the process.
                          So what are you trying to say?

                          I don't know what exactly they are looking for in a candidate, but like jlac, the SAIC was looking at my DD-214 and seeing my combat decorations and expert rifleman awards, and wanted to discuss these things(he was a former Army infantry guy). I think perhaps my experiences in Iraq doing force protection and personal security details were my major selling point. He never asked me if I had fired my weapon or killed anyone, but I have an award for courage under fire and it might have been a given.

                          My military intelligence experience was also a plus. I suppose because he knows that means I'm not an ASVAB waiver (my apologies to all you artillery canoneers out there ) and I've already been through an SSBI or two and came away clean.

                          That being said, my LE experience is ZERO. All I have to ride on is my superior academic achievement, and relevant protection experience in a combat zone. Oh, and 5-points preference never hurts. The SA that did my fingerprints and took my photos got hired on with no military or LE experience, so I think everyone has a shot.
                          Big Brother is watching

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jarhead_FBI_SA View Post
                            So what are you trying to say?

                            I don't know what exactly they are looking for in a candidate, but like jlac, the SAIC was looking at my DD-214 and seeing my combat decorations and expert rifleman awards, and wanted to discuss these things(he was a former Army infantry guy). I think perhaps my experiences in Iraq doing force protection and personal security details were my major selling point. He never asked me if I had fired my weapon or killed anyone, but I have an award for courage under fire and it might have been a given.

                            My military intelligence experience was also a plus. I suppose because he knows that means I'm not an ASVAB waiver (my apologies to all you artillery canoneers out there ) and I've already been through an SSBI or two and came away clean.

                            That being said, my LE experience is ZERO. All I have to ride on is my superior academic achievement, and relevant protection experience in a combat zone. Oh, and 5-points preference never hurts. The SA that did my fingerprints and took my photos got hired on with no military or LE experience, so I think everyone has a shot.
                            I think they took your fingerprints to make sure you wasnt wanted for murder anywhere...lol Nah seriously, they took your fingerprints? They didnt take mines, but photos were taken
                            God Bless America

                            101st Airborne Division, Rakassans Air Assaultttttttt
                            3rd Infantry Division, 2BCT

                            ICE 1811
                            Applied: 6/22/09
                            Exam: 7/24/2009
                            SI/WA: 3/2/2010
                            The Call: October 26, 2010
                            PRESIDIO BOUND!!!!!!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jlac20 View Post
                              I think they took your fingerprints to make sure you wasnt wanted for murder anywhere...lol Nah seriously, they took your fingerprints? They didnt take mines, but photos were taken
                              Yep. Fingerprinted, photographed, and handed the CD with all the required forms on it. Yet, still no COE. Blah.
                              Big Brother is watching

                              Comment


                              • .

                                Hey Jarhead, I think williamske was talking about you! You know how you jarheads can be! I had my fingerprints taken after my home interview. He said they should have been taken earlier but someone forgot to do it. Wait til your poly and they read you your miranda rights! Apparently, a few years ago a former soldier admitted to some executions during war times and ended up being charged for the murders!

                                Comment

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