Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

CBP officer

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • or "have a nice stay... in hell!" booom (that is after making sure no one is nearby to get hurt).
    "Do you have an appointment?"

    -Gupta Rajan

    Comment


    • Originally posted by depezhe View Post
      I do not say so, Penal Code Section § 9.31. and § 9.32 say so!
      First, you are trying to apply TX laws to a CA case. But even the TX law would clear the officer.

      Second and more importantly, I can think of several ways in which a shooting is easily justified even though the subject does not have a weapon.


      § 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
      (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
      (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
      other under Section 9.31;
      (2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
      would not have retreated; and
      (3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
      deadly force is immediately necessary:
      (A) to protect himself against the other's use or
      attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
      (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery
      Last edited by madchiken; 10-11-2008, 01:03 AM.

      Comment


      • Edit: Nevermind, not needed.
        Last edited by merlin436; 10-11-2008, 01:04 AM. Reason: no longer needed

        Comment


        • Originally posted by merlin436 View Post

          Madchiken really ought to read them.
          I did, see above. Also, this is not just someone defending themselves, its an officer taking police action against a felon.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by madchiken View Post
            First, you are trying to apply TX laws to a CA case. But even the TX law would clear the officer.

            Second and more importantly, I can think of several ways in which a shooting is easily justified even though the subject does not have a weapon.


            § 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
            (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
            (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
            other under Section 9.31;
            (2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
            would not have retreated; and
            (3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
            deadly force is immediately necessary:
            (A) to protect himself against the other's use or
            attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
            (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery
            I think so, you may think so, the law may say so, but the DA may not. Its his jurisdiction, and he might just let a jury decide if she was in self defense or not. Hope not.

            http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...n.3ad3fee.html
            Last edited by Orleanian84; 10-11-2008, 01:36 AM. Reason: info added
            "Do you have an appointment?"

            -Gupta Rajan

            Comment


            • Originally posted by madchiken View Post
              First, you are trying to apply TX laws to a CA case. But even the TX law would clear the officer.

              Second and more importantly, I can think of several ways in which a shooting is easily justified even though the subject does not have a weapon.


              § 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
              (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
              (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
              other under Section 9.31;
              (2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
              would not have retreated; and
              (3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
              deadly force is immediately necessary:
              (A) to protect himself against the other's use or
              attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
              (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery
              I'm with you. As a matter of fact, I did not even know about the case. I just said that you just cannot pull you weapon and shoot people you think are thieves and you quoted me from there. The law is written and it has its rules and exceptions. In this particular case, yes she had the right to shoot the armed guy. Moreover, the law states that you can only use deadly force against deadly force, and apply just the necessary force. However, there are exceptions. As a result, court trials.
              TESTED: 3/21 EL CENTRO,CA
              NOR: 4/21 - 92 (N/V) GS7
              QUALIFICATIONS: COMPLETED (8/15)
              GEO PREFERENCE: ANDRADE AZ/ CALEXICO CA
              PRE-EMPLOYMENT FORMS:COMPLETED (5/29)
              MEDICAL: COMPLETED(7/17)
              FITNESS: COMPLETED(7/24)
              VBT: (CALEXICO, CA) COMPLETED (7/22)
              DRUG TEST: COMPLETED (7/25)
              BI: CASE IS IN THE SECURITY OFFICE (met with the investigator (9/15) case sent to adjudicator(10/7)

              Comment


              • Just an aside form the actual debate. CBP has stringent use of force guidelines for off duty officers. You might be justified in your use of force by law, but not by CBP policy. If you violate police then you lose the protection of the CBP provided lawyer and will probably suffer other work related problems if you use your duty weapon.
                But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

                For the intelectually challenged: If the government screws the people enough, it is the right and responsibility of the people to revolt and form a new government.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by bronze01 View Post
                  ....agreed.

                  I believe the reason was:

                  1. Credentials where in her purse.
                  2. Driver's Lic, etc to show her place of residence.

                  I believe she was scared that the purse snatcher had that information and was afraid he'd go to her residence. That was her reasoning.

                  Agreed: Poor judgement.
                  An unfortunate incident for the CBPO. This is an excellent example for potential applicants who ask questions about off duty carry. I realize the CBPO was walking to work, but see what kind of problem arises when you pull your service weapon? On or off duty, sometimes it can be a grey area.

                  I don't know about other female officers, but my creds are in my back pocket and license in a small wallet in another pocket. Anybody who wants to snatch MY purse won't get much, but you can bet they'll get a good foot chase anyway!!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by madchiken View Post
                    I did, see above. Also, this is not just someone defending themselves, its an officer taking police action against a felon.
                    I can see another can of arguing worms has been opened with this topic. Im glad the fuc*** got shot and i hope he died before doing it to someone else. The problem with this sort of thing is that you have to be able to weigh consequences during a robbery, which really isnt possible. People can post all the regulations they want, but in a day and age where people side with bad guys rights instead of law enforcement all you gotta do is watch the news. Example from Detroit, Mi: Maniac with a steel garden rake attacks detroit cops after being ordered to stop multiple times, he continues and gets shot by officers. This part of the story was buried somewhere after the headline that read "family files civil suit in wrongful police shooting, blah, blah, blah". This is the reality of the world we live in, if this was 1800's dodge city, no problem. But in 2008 you better be able to explain your actions down to the smallest detail or have multiple witnesses in your favor or expect to be on your own under the microscope. It's a shame.

                    Comment


                    • Blood Pressure

                      A few pages back there is a big discussion about blood pressure. I have had pre-hypertension for awhile and I spent a lot of time trying to find natural things to bring my BP down.....especially for tests like your medical exam that you are nervous for. In addition to the regular things, like don't smoke, drink coffee or take in any other obvious stimulants, I have found that light exercise a couple hours before my test actually lowers my blood pressure. I have a BP monitor and have spent a lot of time trying to learn what raises and lowers my BP. The best explanation that I can come up with is that the exercise opens up the blood vessels and allows the blood to flow more freely for several hours after the exercise.

                      Additionally, I did pass my med exam with a pre-hypertensive reading that was below 140/90. The medical center sent me a letter to let me know that my BP was high but it was not high enough to disqualify me from CBP.

                      Disclaimer: I am not a physician and I am only stating the results that I have found for myself.
                      ____________________________________________
                      EOD: March 30th
                      FLETC: May 6th

                      Comment


                      • Another thing...

                        As I'm reading the situation surrounding the shooting, it appears that this was a CBPO walking to work in full uniform with duty gear on and a cover jacket over it all. She was minutes away from 'punching the clock'. By strict interpretation this may be an off-duty shoot, but it's hardly typical of how/what most would view an off-duty situation.

                        When I speak of off-duty situations, I'm talking of bringing 'Marie' out to Target on days off. Taking her out to watch the Atlanta Thrashers play, or to see the sights of Mount Rushmore. Bringing her along to cousin Sally's wedding reception or out to eat at the local Texas Roadhouse. I'm not talking of the 5 minute walk between the parking lot and the port.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pawn922 View Post
                          A few pages back there is a big discussion about blood pressure. I have had pre-hypertension for awhile and I spent a lot of time trying to find natural things to bring my BP down.....especially for tests like your medical exam that you are nervous for. In addition to the regular things, like don't smoke, drink coffee or take in any other obvious stimulants, I have found that light exercise a couple hours before my test actually lowers my blood pressure. I have a BP monitor and have spent a lot of time trying to learn what raises and lowers my BP. The best explanation that I can come up with is that the exercise opens up the blood vessels and allows the blood to flow more freely for several hours after the exercise.

                          Additionally, I did pass my med exam with a pre-hypertensive reading that was below 140/90. The medical center sent me a letter to let me know that my BP was high but it was not high enough to disqualify me from CBP.

                          Disclaimer: I am not a physician and I am only stating the results that I have found for myself.

                          Speaking of which,

                          I read a book a while back called the 8 week cholesterol cure, which mentions ways that you can help lower your blood pressure. Obviously, it recommends exercise and watching your diet. It also mentions whole grains, grape juice and garlic as natural ways of helping to lower your blood pressure.

                          My BP was always ok until I switched from being a medic to working a desk job... I don't think I'll have a problem with my BP at the medical but my BP does generally fluctuate from 120/70 to 130/84.

                          btw I don't plan on getting involved in the criminal aspects of utilizing deadly force on a purse snatcher and the defenses associated therewith. Every state has their own specific criminal statutes regarding same.
                          Last edited by Peteylaw06; 10-11-2008, 04:45 PM.
                          CBPO:
                          EXAM: 8/08
                          NOR: 9/9/08 - 98
                          T.O.: 2/2/09
                          GEO - E. TX
                          Forms - 2/6/09
                          Quals - 4/13/09
                          Med - 2/27/09 Clr 4/10/09
                          VBT - 3/10/09 Clr 4/6/09
                          UDS - 6/24/09
                          BI - Met w. B.I. 4/12/09 clr 7/2/09
                          Fitness - 3/9/09
                          TSU - 7/2/09
                          ___________________

                          Law Enforcement Specialist (ICE)
                          GEO: VT
                          NOR: 99 (GS-11)
                          T.O.: 10/28/09
                          B.I.: clr 3/12/10
                          E.O.D.: 4/11/2010!!!

                          Comment


                          • Federal agent opens fire on armed robber who grabbed purse
                            Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writer

                            Tuesday, September 23, 2008


                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Print E-mail del.icio.us
                            Digg
                            Technorati
                            Reddit
                            Facebook Slashdot
                            Fark
                            Newsvine
                            Google Bookmarks
                            Yahoo! Buzz
                            Share Comments Georgia (default)
                            Verdana
                            Times New Roman
                            ArialFont | Size:

                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            (09-22) 15:16 PDT OAKLAND -- An off-duty U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent opened fire today on an armed man who grabbed her purse in Oakland's Chinatown, police said.


                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            More Bay Area News
                            Wildfire threatens Napa Valley homes 10.11.08
                            Man held in mom's slaying after stiffing bill 10.11.08
                            Man gets 10 years in prison for child porn 10.11.08
                            Man shot and wounded in Oakland 10.11.08

                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            The agent was walking near Ninth and Franklin streets in downtown Oakland when she was accosted shortly after 6 a.m. A man with a gun demanded her purse, but the agent pulled out her own weapon and opened fire, police said.

                            The robber may have been shot as he fled with the purse, police said.

                            NOTE TO READERS: This update corrects the federal agency where the robbery victim works.


                            E-mail Henry K. Lee at [email protected].

                            Comment


                            • OH, Now this changes the whole story doesn't it? Amazing how some people are quick to judge and give their stupid moronic opinions without finding out the facts! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2087901/posts
                              There's more to Jujitsu than just fighting. It's about making the right perception, reaction, decisions, judgement, choices !

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by sap123 View Post
                                See, I would have just handed over my wallet and said "take it and don't hurt me." It's not worth trying to get out of a situation if I'm dead to rights by some punk who just wants whats in my wallet.

                                And while I'm playing "Armchair CBPO," I'll go for the bonus and say that if he took the purse, fled AND THEN she drew down and open fire, that's even worse.
                                WTF Am I hearing here. Are these future CBPO/BP nugs.....you gotta be kidding me. Unless you were physically there and know all the facts (not the media facts) you cannot say s%$. Would of, should of……..but let me know what would you do in that situation, maybe nothing because you probably NEVER been in that situation.

                                As long as the Agent was in imminent danger of seriously bodily harm and she had had the three factors (I and madchicken know), she is squared away. Also, don’t expect too much for the agency because they are going to cover their behinds (G pockets are deep).
                                Ever think that while the purp was running, he was aiming the gun at the agent. I’ve seen it, because it happened to me and not just in one occasion. Been there and done that.
                                Thank God for FLEOA and Liability Ins.

                                SAP123 & DEPEZHE save yourself and time because you are worthless…….Also, please reconsider applying somewhere esle. You two are not LE material.

                                MADCHICKEN…….these are two examples of what is now showing up at the stations………SAD AND PATHETIC……In my old LE Agency, these two would be working the beat in SW & NW Philly. Savages would have a feast with these two rookies.
                                Last edited by phillystactical; 10-11-2008, 06:21 PM.
                                There are two freedoms, the false is where one is free to do what he likes, and true where one is free to do what he ought. -Charles Kingsley.

                                HONOR FIRST!

                                Comment

                                MR300x250 Tablet

                                Collapse

                                What's Going On

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 6417 users online. 351 members and 6066 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 26,947 at 07:36 PM on 12-29-2019.

                                Welcome Ad

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X