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  • A friend of mine, a 25 year veteran of the FBI, recently told me there are two words to justify the polygraph in the federal government: ROBERT HANSSEN.

    I would agree and add two more words - specifically for CBP: GULF CARTEL.
    "He made the night a little brighter where ever he would go. The old lamplighter of long, long ago."

    Comment


    • I'm in TSU and the whole process for me has already taken years. If I get polygraphed and fail, I will NOT take this lying down. I have chosen CBPO as my career and if I get thrown out for something that is not even admissible in court, I'm kicking and screaming all the way 'till I've exhausted all of my options.

      Here is a thought for you. Instead of accepting the fact that you've failed the polygraph and all of the effort you've put into becoming a CBPO has been wasted, why don't the people that have failed join up and have a CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT??? Seriously, as stated above, if the courts won't accept them, why should CBP? When we applied I don't think it ever said anything about being polygraphed. (someone correct me if I'm wrong please) It doesn't seem right that they can change the rules when we've passed everything, some people from the same timeline have been accepted as CBPOs already without the poly, etc.

      So, having said that, please PM me if you are serious about joining my list of people who would potentially want to sue in a class action lawsuit at some point. I will be starting a list. Having read everything in the last few pages here regarding failing polys for no reason makes me disgusted. WE are not at fault for CBP sending out so many offers in the last few years. We should not be eliminated based on a false and inaccurate test designed to reduce the amount of people in the pool.

      Please don't point out the fact that I'm looking to sue even though CBP isn't my employer, etc, etc. In the end all I want is to become a CBPO and if some idiot with a polygraph certification can have my chosen career decided by a coin toss, a wrong fidget, a crappy commute before the test, etc., I'm not going to take that lying down. I've never sued before and I'm not one to throw that word around, but I do feel that this is incredibly unfair. For those of you who've failed and are not sure if you'd want to join my list (read, in case we decide to sue later list), I'll leave you with these two points.

      1. What CBP is doing is unfair, unprecedented, unlawful, and I think we would have a chance.
      2. PAUL N. LUVERA
      Last edited by pendingville; 07-29-2010, 07:06 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by pendingville View Post
        I'm in TSU and the whole process for me has already been over 2 years. If I get polygraphed and fail, I will NOT take this lying down. I have chosen CBPO as my career and if after 2 years I get thrown out for something that is not even admissible in court, I'm kicking and screaming all the way 'till I've exhausted all of my options.

        Here is a thought for you. Instead of accepting the fact that you've failed the polygraph and all of the effort you've put into becoming a CBPO has been wasted, why don't the people that have failed join up and have a CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT??? Seriously, as stated above, if the courts won't accept them, why should CBP? When we applied I don't think it ever said anything about being polygraphed. (someone correct me if I'm wrong please, I applied 05/2008.) It doesn't seem right that they can change the rules when we've passed everything, some people from the same timeline have been accepted as CBPOs already without the poly, etc.

        So, having said that, please PM me if you are serious about joining my list of people who would potentially want to sue in a class action lawsuit at some point. I will be starting a list. Having read everything in the last few pages here regarding failing polys for no reason makes me disgusted. WE are not at fault for CBP sending out so many offers in the last 2 years. We should not be eliminated based on a false and inaccurate test designed to reduce the amount of people in the pool.

        Please don't point out the fact that I'm looking to sue even though CBP isn't my employer, etc, etc. In the end all I want is to become a CBPO and if some idiot with a polygraph certification can have my chosen career decided by a coin toss, a wrong fidget, a crappy commute before the test, etc., I'm not going to take that lying down. I've never sued before and I'm not one to throw that word around, but I do feel that this is incredibly unfair. For those of you who've failed and are not sure if you'd want to join my list (read, in case we decide to sue later list), I'll leave you with these two points.

        1. What CBP is doing is unfair, unprecedented, unlawful, and I think we would have a chance.
        2. PAUL N. LUVERA
        I wish you luck in any lawsuit. However, even though the polygraph is not admissible in court, it is used in the vast majority of hiring processes for law enforcement agencies. Some states such as New Jersey had laws against it use in hiring but it is by far the execption not the rule. As for CBP the polygraph has always been a possiblity for years. The agency just didn't use it. If you read the fine print in what was sent to you. You will find it stated that the polygraph was a possiblity. You do realize that no matter how long the process takes, and what you did to stay in the process, the agency is under no obligation to hire you even if you are 100% suitable.

        FB

        Comment


        • If CBP had the desire to empty out TSU, all they'd have to do is slightly modify the current hiring procedures, open a new announcement, cancel the past announcements and have all applicants apply under the new announcement. Cancel all old announcements and the TSU# drops to 0.

          There's no need to use a cumbersome and expensive method like polys..if the goal is to clear out TSU.

          Comment


          • I'd be careful about threatening lawsuits on a public forum. For some reason, people read them and companies and governments enjoy avoiding lawsuits as a rule. Anyone who would come in pre-hire with guns blazing is bound to go off at the slightest sign of unfairness post-hire. What organization would want to hire someone who was threatening them from outset?

            Anyone in their right mind would avoid signing up for a hypothetical class action in the event that they failed a polygraph.
            Last edited by TuffStuffCBP; 07-29-2010, 05:23 PM.
            CBPO
            GEO - NY/JFK
            TEST - 03/08 (NOR: 04/08)

            TO - 01/09
            PE Forms - Completed
            Fitness - Completed
            VBT - 03/09 - Completed
            Drug Screen - Completed
            Qual - 05/09 - Completed
            B.I. - 05/09 - Completed
            Medical - 05/09 - Completed
            TSU


            EOD: ???
            FLETC: ???

            Comment


            • Then why the purge of people waiting in the wings? Polygraphs are seemingly being used without explanation when the results don't appear positive. There are no second chances from what it seems.

              How is it fair that if two friends who theoretically applied a few months apart, had same criminal background, had identical scores/timelines on finishing everything, etc., didn't both get hired? I understand the need to introduce a more effective way of reducing the amount of people who may have potential ties to other interests like drug cartels, etc., but surely a polygraph is not it. Shouldn't the line be drawn in the sand of say introducing a new announcement where the polygraph really is mentioned as one of the steps in the CASS, just like your medical, etc.? Why allow 100s of CBPOs in and 100s now forced out when their starting point was nearly the same?

              I have nothing to hide from a poly but I know I'm not good at them. I've passed 1, failed 1. Mind you that process took a few months, not a few years, so yes, I do feel that I have much more invested in CBP. I just find it hard to believe that DHS and CBP find it reasonable to dangle a GS-5/7 in front of your nose for years, some as much as 3 years, only to snatch it away from you with one test that is as discredited as the poly.

              That is not right and that is my point.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
                I'd be careful about threatening lawsuits on a public forum. For some reason, people read them and companies and governments enjoy avoiding lawsuits as a rule. Anyone who would come in pre-hire with guns blazing is bound to go off at the slightest sign of unfairness post-hire. What organization would want to hire someone who was threatening them from outset?

                Anyone in their right mind would avoid signing up for a hypothetical class action in the event that they failed a polygraph.
                .

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pendingville View Post
                  Then why the purge of people waiting in the wings? Polygraphs are seemingly being used without explanation when the results don't appear positive. There are no second chances from what it seems.

                  How is it fair that if two friends who theoretically applied a few months apart, had same criminal background, had identical scores/timelines on finishing everything, etc., didn't both get hired? I understand the need to introduce a more effective way of reducing the amount of people who may have potential ties to other interests like drug cartels, etc., but surely a polygraph is not it. Shouldn't the line be drawn in the sand of say introducing a new announcement where the polygraph really is mentioned as one of the steps in the CASS, just like your medical, etc.? Why allow 100s of CBPOs in and 100s now forced out when their starting point was nearly the same?

                  I have nothing to hide from a poly but I know I'm not good at them. I've passed 1, failed 1. Mind you that process took a few months, not a few years, so yes, I do feel that I have much more invested in CBP. I just find it hard to believe that DHS and CBP find it reasonable to dangle a GS-5/7 in front of your nose for years, some as much as 3 years, only to snatch it away from you with one test that is as discredited as the poly.

                  That is not right and that is my point.
                  Hello to all of those that are on this forum, I have been reading since months and months ago but never joined till now, and just now because I want to share with you guys my experience as well, I have been in TSU since Sep 09 for AZ and last week guess what happened??? yeah you got that right I failed the famous POLY, specially the drug and crime questions.....and without going in too much details if I need to say how it went the whole test procedure, don’t need to do it because it was exactly the same way as the ones I have read here, exactly the same, is like a set procedure, like the examiners agreed on how to do it or how to eliminate applicants, to me and I know to for many of you it seems pretty weird that most applicants are not passing it!!!, as from my case the only thing I want to tell you is that I always fight for what I think is right and that I am being proactive and will not keep my arms crossed and i think that there is something for us to do regarding this issue.....by the way this is my first of many posts i hope....

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sammax View Post
                    .. I have been in TSU since Sep 09 for AZ and last week guess what happened??? yeah you got that right I failed the famous POLY, specially the drug and crime questions.....and without going in too much details if I need to say how it went the whole test procedure, don’t need to do it because it was exactly the same way as the ones I have read here, exactly the same, is like a set procedure, like the examiners agreed on how to do it or how to eliminate applicants ....
                    Welcome to the forum.

                    There has to be some common denominator about having the poly administered the same exact way and it leading to the same outcome of failing. To you guys that have failed it so far, do you mind sharing what you said in the BI regarding past drug usage? Anything more serious than weed? How many times, and how long ago? What kind of references did you provide, ie any current LEOs or military personnel?

                    The only thing I ever tried was weed and only 2 or 3 times over 12 years ago. So far no request to take a poly.
                    CBP written test Miami, FL
                    11/10/2007
                    NOR letter 01/16/2008
                    VBT 4/2/2008 (passed)
                    Forms 6/2/2009 completed
                    Med exam 4/6/2009 completed
                    9/4/2009
                    Physical exam 4/6/2009 (passed)
                    drug test 5/7/2009 (passed)
                    TO 5/12/2009 (2nd one,
                    never got first)
                    qualifications completed
                    BI interview 9/30/2009
                    BI cleared/referred to TSU 10/30/2009
                    poly: Mar 2011
                    updated e-Qip & All Forms: Sep/Oct 2011
                    BI interview II: Dec 2011/Jan 2012

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by pendingville View Post
                      Then why the purge of people waiting in the wings? Polygraphs are seemingly being used without explanation when the results don't appear positive. There are no second chances from what it seems.

                      How is it fair that if two friends who theoretically applied a few months apart, had same criminal background, had identical scores/timelines on finishing everything, etc., didn't both get hired? I understand the need to introduce a more effective way of reducing the amount of people who may have potential ties to other interests like drug cartels, etc., but surely a polygraph is not it. Shouldn't the line be drawn in the sand of say introducing a new announcement where the polygraph really is mentioned as one of the steps in the CASS, just like your medical, etc.? Why allow 100s of CBPOs in and 100s now forced out when their starting point was nearly the same?

                      I have nothing to hide from a poly but I know I'm not good at them. I've passed 1, failed 1. Mind you that process took a few months, not a few years, so yes, I do feel that I have much more invested in CBP. I just find it hard to believe that DHS and CBP find it reasonable to dangle a GS-5/7 in front of your nose for years, some as much as 3 years, only to snatch it away from you with one test that is as discredited as the poly.

                      That is not right and that is my point.
                      What you have to understand is that before the hiring blitz of the past few years that occurred to raise employment numbers quickly the hiring process was normally measured in YEARS for almost all Federal Law Enforcement Agencies. What you are seeing now is the pendulum swinging back in the other direction because the Agency learned the hard way that you do not get quality candidates by rushing the process. It has learned the hard way that there are way too many sustained IA investigations that should have been discovered in the BI.

                      As for the identical candidate scenario, it doesn't happen and even if you think it does. It doesn't. People don't have identical backgrounds and people don't ever tell their friends everything. Even if it did happen, it really doesn't matter as I said before the agency has no obligation to hire you regardless of how long the process takes or if you are 100% suitable. Is it fair? Maybe not, but if you are looking for fair you are looking to get into the wrong profession.

                      FB

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sandwichman View Post
                        Welcome to the forum.

                        There has to be some common denominator about having the poly administered the same exact way and it leading to the same outcome of failing. To you guys that have failed it so far, do you mind sharing what you said in the BI regarding past drug usage? Anything more serious than weed? How many times, and how long ago? What kind of references did you provide, ie any current LEOs or military personnel?

                        The only thing I ever tried was weed and only 2 or 3 times over 12 years ago. So far no request to take a poly.
                        Hey Sandwichman,


                        thanks, that’s the thing I have never ever in my entire life experimented, sold, transported any illegal drugs....and I told that to the examiner, because according to the test and to the examiner I reacted to that and other questions, I told the examiner I had no problem to admit if any of that would had happened in the past because what an agency cares is the frequency and what has been used..but in my case among other things I am proud of myself is that never ever had experimented any, I have seen people doing it and at concerts had smell it but that’s the closest I have been from that, and that is probably why I reacted......

                        Comment


                        • Even though I passed the polygraph, I had to say that it was one of the most memorable experience I ever had. It felt like you're in a restraint and all you can do was to look forward, keep breathing and answers the questions. Every time you take a breath your chest get tighter and tighter, because of the measurement cord that straps across your chest. You're so focus on maximizing your comfort level that you ignore the questions you're being asked. I have to asked for repeats on so many occasions. Though, there were several occasions that the protector accused me of hiding something and threaten to terminate the test early because I can't get my heart rate down. My heart rate go up because I can't breathe. It go up because this is a new experience to you . It go up because there are other factors that does not associate with the questions. We had to go restart the exam several times because it. After the exam, I felt exhausted and I walked to car like a zombie. I wish I never have to do this again, but chances are I will have to down the road.

                          In my opinion, the protector's job is to be professional. I believe he treated me professionally. Though he made me realized how serious this job is and it is not a picnic in the park. It's a rude awakening for me to transition over and expect how I will be treated if I were to get hired. I am sorry for those who didn't pass, but I bet you my outlook will be the same as yours if I didn't. There is no perfect system to judge people's integrity, but only our-self and our creator to do so. What I am saying is that if they accused you of something, you have to prove them wrong. It is always a good fight if your integrity is at risk. I did. This is coming from a guy that never smoke marijuana or do drugs, yet got refused a job at a local police department because your brother was convicted of conspiracy to distribute marijuana.

                          Long story short, I applied for a local police department, I was in the middle of the process when my brother got arrested at his house (I was living with him at the time when I was in college). I did not know he been doing this because I was in school and busy working. I got a called from my background detective stating that because of this incident, they refused to proceed my next step and have to wait for a year and start over. That year came and I reapplied. I passed all phase up to the background part. Before they even investigate me, because of the incident being too recent, I have to wait another year. So two years gone by I tested again with my best friend. Currently my friend is a police officer in that department and I am here ranting away. I got the same result as prior. It's been almost four years since that incident and my brother already served his sentence. My friend the other day told me that he talked to one of the detective that know my case and that detective told me I need to get hired somewhere else before they can consider me. I am a liability to the department. My background with CBP was more intensive then my friend, but he have a job and I don't. I can remembered what the detective said that stuck with me eversince: "its all about association". Because I associate with my brother, I am guilty. I had to laugh that out loud in my head. I am in TSU for more than a year now and things are not looking up with hiring.

                          Well, with that being said, I understand it's frustrating sometime with the process, the only thing that keep me going is my ability to prove them wrong. Good luck with everyone.

                          Sorry for the rant and the grammar...
                          _____________
                          CBPO - Washington Northern Border
                          Test: 2/27/2009
                          NOR: 3/09/09 (81% w/o vet.)
                          TO: 4/09/09
                          Background: Met with BI on 6/18/09
                          TSU: 6/11/09

                          Comment


                          • They're not removing people from TSU with the poly. They're removing those people from TSU that the poly finds that likely have/may have potential negative issues.

                            That's a big difference.

                            We can argue up and down as to whether the poly is an exceptionally good method of screening out 'bad applicants'. We can argue about the numbers of 'good people' the poly sweeps up along with the 'bad people'. We can argue many things, but it's pretty safe to say the the poly is employed to remove 'problems' from the applicant pool, and as such to avoid hiring them...not just to draw down overall TSU numbers.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Khue View Post
                              Even though I passed the polygraph, I had to say that it was one of the most memorable experience I ever had. It felt like you're in a restraint and all you can do was to look forward, keep breathing and answers the questions. Every time you take a breath your chest get tighter and tighter, because of the measurement cord that straps across your chest. You're so focus on maximizing your comfort level that you ignore the questions you're being asked. I have to asked for repeats on so many occasions. Though, there were several occasions that the protector accused me of hiding something and threaten to terminate the test early because I can't get my heart rate down. My heart rate go up because I can't breathe. It go up because this is a new experience to you . It go up because there are other factors that does not associate with the questions. We had to go restart the exam several times because it. After the exam, I felt exhausted and I walked to car like a zombie. I wish I never have to do this again, but chances are I will have to down the road.

                              In my opinion, the protector's job is to be professional. I believe he treated me professionally. Though he made me realized how serious this job is and it is not a picnic in the park. It's a rude awakening for me to transition over and expect how I will be treated if I were to get hired. I am sorry for those who didn't pass, but I bet you my outlook will be the same as yours if I didn't. There is no perfect system to judge people's integrity, but only our-self and our creator to do so. What I am saying is that if they accused you of something, you have to prove them wrong. It is always a good fight if your integrity is at risk. I did. This is coming from a guy that never smoke marijuana or do drugs, yet got refused a job at a local police department because your brother was convicted of conspiracy to distribute marijuana.

                              Long story short, I applied for a local police department, I was in the middle of the process when my brother got arrested at his house (I was living with him at the time when I was in college). I did not know he been doing this because I was in school and busy working. I got a called from my background detective stating that because of this incident, they refused to proceed my next step and have to wait for a year and start over. That year came and I reapplied. I passed all phase up to the background part. Before they even investigate me, because of the incident being too recent, I have to wait another year. So two years gone by I tested again with my best friend. Currently my friend is a police officer in that department and I am here ranting away. I got the same result as prior. It's been almost four years since that incident and my brother already served his sentence. My friend the other day told me that he talked to one of the detective that know my case and that detective told me I need to get hired somewhere else before they can consider me. I am a liability to the department. My background with CBP was more intensive then my friend, but he have a job and I don't. I can remembered what the detective said that stuck with me eversince: "its all about association". Because I associate with my brother, I am guilty. I had to laugh that out loud in my head. I am in TSU for more than a year now and things are not looking up with hiring.

                              Well, with that being said, I understand it's frustrating sometime with the process, the only thing that keep me going is my ability to prove them wrong. Good luck with everyone.

                              Sorry for the rant and the grammar...
                              Hello khue,

                              So if I understood correctly, you passed the Poly is that right?? And you said that your brother was charged for conspiracy to distribute marijuana?? and that you were living with him at that time in the same house, to be honest even tough you say you had nothing to do with that, if you would have not passed the test I would have completely understand and somehow agree with the examiner due to the fact that you were living in the same house because there would be a lot of suspicion whether you were involved or not, but in my case that had nothing to do with drugs nor my family and not passing that’s what bothers me...... and please don’t take it personal, we are only frustrated........

                              Comment


                              • Yes, I passed the polygraph test. To me, the polygraph vindicate me. My point is, it's very frustrating that you follow the rules and the laws and yet got turn down. I understand your plight. It is very frustrating.
                                _____________
                                CBPO - Washington Northern Border
                                Test: 2/27/2009
                                NOR: 3/09/09 (81% w/o vet.)
                                TO: 4/09/09
                                Background: Met with BI on 6/18/09
                                TSU: 6/11/09

                                Comment

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