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  • Originally posted by PL07 View Post
    They don't have the resources to poly 100% of applicants...
    Resources? It doesn't take an army to polygraph a few hundred people a year. Most agencies only have 1 or 2 polygraphers for multiple states. They handle it just fine. Last I heard CBP had at least 40, which is more than enough to handle all new hires.

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    • Originally posted by Sytes View Post
      I disagree Yankee. I am sure all the other federal agencies who do use polygraphs as a tool - not as the only tool though as a tool... have shown many years of success... such as FBI, DEA, USSS. There practically is no SA positions that do not require (and have not required) a polygraph.
      ICE and DSS for starters.

      I think polygraphs have more to do with the 'culture' of whatever agency you apply to in my opinion.
      "Officer, you are kinda hot."

      "And you are kinda intoxicated."

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      • Originally posted by CBPO I View Post
        Resources? It doesn't take an army to polygraph a few hundred people a year. Most agencies only have 1 or 2 polygraphers for multiple states. They handle it just fine. Last I heard CBP had at least 40, which is more than enough to handle all new hires.
        With the extreme budget cuts, they do not have the money to pay for 100%.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by sap123 View Post
          ICE and DSS for starters.

          I think polygraphs have more to do with the 'culture' of whatever agency you apply to in my opinion.
          ICE is just around the corner if a CBP "Officer" has poly's... ICE SA's are just a step away from polys. Least, that is the rumor.

          As someone else mentioned earlier - If that is what happens - then that is what happens. It is not going to help to get nerves all frayed. Be confident in your responses... If your not confident in your responses... maybe some personal reflection is necessary. Honesty is the best - beyond that, it is just another hurdle to jump through. Physical standards improved (a bit) poly's added, more detailed 5 year background reviews... Good. Those that succeed and join our team - good on ya! I feel better about you becoming a partner under these conditions than - the weak... "we will take anyone" type attitude going on a couple years back.

          After seeing the wave of recruits... filling the holes with "BODIES" - It is about damn time we start fine tuning our selection of officers. Bad enough dealing with some of the craggy "The gov't owes me - I'll sit on my arse" type... They bitch about everything at work... Complain non stop... YET, if they worked private sector their arse would be on the streets doing their whining! (Haha! On a rant as I am overhearing one of these toons crying about congress... HAHA!) Then, none the less, covert cartel recruits and weak minded souls who simply give CBP Officers who do their job with pride - a bad name.

          Best of success to those facing the poly hurdle! Another pain in the arse - though keep plowing ahead! And to Mr. Yankeefan, Congrats on the ICE opportunity - Best of success with that endeavor.
          Live to work... or Work to live - YOUR Choice.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PL07 View Post
            With the extreme budget cuts, they do not have the money to pay for 100%.
            Are you just assuming that, or is there something you're basing that off of? It's sort of like saying because of extreme budget cuts they aren't going to conduct interviews because they cost so much. If you think about it, a polygraph shouldn't cost the government much. When the polygraph is written into the process for hiring, and you have staff on the budget that their sole job is to just polygraph someone, it would be a waste of money not to use them versus using them. The only cost to the government to conduct a polygraph that I can see is running the electricity to operate the machine. Other than that everything else is already in place.

            Gotta remember that these extreme budget cuts aren't everywhere in CBP, and hiring is budgeted separately from all else. Some field offices are acting as if we're completely broke, while others are operating at full force. I know ours thinks that a penny cannot be spent on anything right now... not even training or to attend a conference that would cost $300. While MANY other field offices are operating as normal sending them across the world for advance training, buying up vehicles, equipment, blackberry's, and toughbooks for their officers. Just my opinion from what I've seen.
            Last edited by CBPO I; 05-16-2010, 11:00 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CBPO I View Post
              The only cost to the government to conduct a polygraph that I can see is running the electricity to operate the machine. Other than that everything else is already in place.
              Travel is a huge expense, they have to either bring the people to the examiner or the examiner to them. Supplys for the examiners, keeping the machines up to date, and the examiner training.

              The examiner has to do more than run tests 8 hours a day, they have to write reports, maintain equipement ect, ect. 40 examiners could not keep up with the officers on the SW border doing 5 years and exams for cause (why is it that the load cars caught at the check point always come from the lane this guy runs). Then throw in all the BPAs and you have used these guys up quick. The FBI has many fewer agents, and they don't always catch the bad guys (ever see the movie "Breach" he passed every one of his polys)

              Using them on new hires makes more sense as there are not as many, you can make them come to you on their dime and they are unknown as to their truthfulness. Polygraphs are tools, not a reason to kick someone due to inconclusive responses. Think of it more as a metal detector, it lets you know where to dig instead of just digging blindly.
              Life is what happens while you are waiting for something better to come along.

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              • I'm not Skurred

                Last edited by Jdlewis; 05-16-2010, 09:22 PM.

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                • Originally posted by biggdawgdaddy View Post
                  Think of it more as a metal detector, it lets you know where to dig instead of just digging blindly.
                  This has to be the best statement yet re: poly's and CBP. I want to say more though don't want to minimize the above comment. Spot on BDD!
                  Live to work... or Work to live - YOUR Choice.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by biggdawgdaddy View Post
                    Travel is a huge expense, they have to either bring the people to the examiner or the examiner to them. Supplys for the examiners, keeping the machines up to date, and the examiner training.

                    The examiner has to do more than run tests 8 hours a day, they have to write reports, maintain equipement ect, ect. 40 examiners could not keep up with the officers on the SW border doing 5 years and exams for cause (why is it that the load cars caught at the check point always come from the lane this guy runs). Then throw in all the BPAs and you have used these guys up quick. The FBI has many fewer agents, and they don't always catch the bad guys (ever see the movie "Breach" he passed every one of his polys)

                    Using them on new hires makes more sense as there are not as many, you can make them come to you on their dime and they are unknown as to their truthfulness. Polygraphs are tools, not a reason to kick someone due to inconclusive responses. Think of it more as a metal detector, it lets you know where to dig instead of just digging blindly.
                    Every agency I know of with the exception of the Postal Service and maybe the FBI, makes the applicant come to them for tests, interviews, and polygraphs at their own expense. I know in my previous experience I have had to fly to three different cities for three different agencies for various reasons on my dime.

                    You're also talking about expenses for the polygrapher that is already factored into their job and won't change if they introduce it for all new hires (supplies, machine maintenance, training). CBP is spending that money for them already, which brings me back to my point that it would cost them not to use them.

                    Polygraphs are not, and will not be used for periodical exams, that's already been settled by the union. As for their usefulness I personally think they suck, so don't confuse my argument for their future use as my backing. The number 40 I provided was only a low, rough estimate that was provided back in May of 2009. It's quite possible they have doubled or tripled their staff since then.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CBPO I View Post
                      Every agency I know of with the exception of the Postal Service and maybe the FBI, makes the applicant come to them for tests, interviews, and polygraphs at their own expense. I know in my previous experience I have had to fly to three different cities for three different agencies for various reasons on my dime.
                      Here's a problem, and I don't know the answer. I'm just pointing it out. Many of the agencies that require the applicant to travel extensively on their dime I would consider a "prestige agency". Don't get me wrong I think CBP is a good agency, it does have problems but is overall on the right path, but when you talk to young people about working for the Feds they normally start talking about ATF, FBI, CIA (not LE I know), NSA, DEA, etc. They don't normally talk about CBP. Talking with many CBPO's this is a starting point for them and they plan to move on as soon as the chance comes up. So how many people are willing to spend a lot of money to fly around the country to get a job with CBP? I know I wasn't willing to spend to much to get the job. Heck I had to drive an two hours each time to take the test, VBT, and physical. I also had to take my time to run around and find information (that the BI should have found). I was getting to the point where if they would have asked me to take a couple days off work and spend another $200-300 plus hotel to fly to Atlanta for a poly, I would have told them to take a flying leap.

                      I think one day CBP can be one of the "prestige agencies", but to quote an instructor I once had, "We ain't there yet." A lot needs to change with how we do things, but the mission of the agency can lead it to be a highly desirable job. CBP is a young agency, although elements of it have been around for a very long time. Once leadership figures out exactly what and how we are to do things in the combined environment, we will be free to actually do them. Currently how we do the job seems to change too often, to allow us to get good at how we go about completing the mission. I write this up to being relatively young. Once the growing pains are figured out then the agency can be on the path to being outstanding.
                      But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

                      For the intelectually challenged: If the government screws the people enough, it is the right and responsibility of the people to revolt and form a new government.

                      Comment


                      • If we're talking of increased expenses associated with the poly, then we likely need to dig deeper.

                        Testing, scoring, sending out NOR's, starting BI's, and all the rest of the initial hiring pipeline more or less count too, at least for that percentage of people who need to be brought into the system to replace those in the applicant pool who end up being removed through the poly process.
                        Last edited by merlin436; 05-17-2010, 09:14 AM.

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                        • double post...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CBPO I View Post
                            Every agency I know of with the exception of the Postal Service and maybe the FBI, makes the applicant come to them for tests, interviews, and polygraphs at their own expense. I know in my previous experience I have had to fly to three different cities for three different agencies for various reasons on my dime.

                            You're also talking about expenses for the polygrapher that is already factored into their job and won't change if they introduce it for all new hires (supplies, machine maintenance, training). CBP is spending that money for them already, which brings me back to my point that it would cost them not to use them.

                            Polygraphs are not, and will not be used for periodical exams, that's already been settled by the union. As for their usefulness I personally think they suck, so don't confuse my argument for their future use as my backing. The number 40 I provided was only a low, rough estimate that was provided back in May of 2009. It's quite possible they have doubled or tripled their staff since then.
                            Your number is somewhat interesting. I had training with IA types about 5 months ago. Their story was that their re-hire annuitants that were doing BI's about 50 to 60 had been RIF'd. They are backlogged on 5 year re-investigations and that it was not getting any better any time soon.

                            FB

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                            • Why did I just get another NOR from MHC ? WTF?

                              I just got one on the 5th and I swear they just send them out every couple of months for no reason. I think this is the 7th or 8th one I have gotten from the April '09 announcement.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by imlikeaninja View Post
                                Why did I just get another NOR from MHC ? WTF?

                                I just got one on the 5th and I swear they just send them out every couple of months for no reason. I think this is the 7th or 8th one I have gotten from the April '09 announcement.
                                Yeah I got one too. Wtf? I always think it might be a TO at first, but it's really just another copy of the original email. It must be automated or too many people have been calling MHC lately.
                                Current 1811

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