Originally posted by PL07
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Originally posted by Sytes View PostI disagree Yankee. I am sure all the other federal agencies who do use polygraphs as a tool - not as the only tool though as a tool... have shown many years of success... such as FBI, DEA, USSS. There practically is no SA positions that do not require (and have not required) a polygraph.
I think polygraphs have more to do with the 'culture' of whatever agency you apply to in my opinion."Officer, you are kinda hot."
"And you are kinda intoxicated."
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Originally posted by CBPO I View PostResources? It doesn't take an army to polygraph a few hundred people a year. Most agencies only have 1 or 2 polygraphers for multiple states. They handle it just fine. Last I heard CBP had at least 40, which is more than enough to handle all new hires.
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Originally posted by sap123 View PostICE and DSS for starters.
I think polygraphs have more to do with the 'culture' of whatever agency you apply to in my opinion.
As someone else mentioned earlier - If that is what happens - then that is what happens. It is not going to help to get nerves all frayed. Be confident in your responses... If your not confident in your responses... maybe some personal reflection is necessary. Honesty is the best - beyond that, it is just another hurdle to jump through. Physical standards improved (a bit) poly's added, more detailed 5 year background reviews... Good. Those that succeed and join our team - good on ya! I feel better about you becoming a partner under these conditions than - the weak... "we will take anyone" type attitude going on a couple years back.
After seeing the wave of recruits... filling the holes with "BODIES" - It is about damn time we start fine tuning our selection of officers. Bad enough dealing with some of the craggy "The gov't owes me - I'll sit on my arse" type... They bitch about everything at work... Complain non stop... YET, if they worked private sector their arse would be on the streets doing their whining! (Haha! On a rant as I am overhearing one of these toons crying about congress... HAHA!) Then, none the less, covert cartel recruits and weak minded souls who simply give CBP Officers who do their job with pride - a bad name.
Best of success to those facing the poly hurdle! Another pain in the arse - though keep plowing ahead! And to Mr. Yankeefan, Congrats on the ICE opportunity - Best of success with that endeavor.Live to work... or Work to live - YOUR Choice.
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Originally posted by PL07 View PostWith the extreme budget cuts, they do not have the money to pay for 100%.
Gotta remember that these extreme budget cuts aren't everywhere in CBP, and hiring is budgeted separately from all else. Some field offices are acting as if we're completely broke, while others are operating at full force. I know ours thinks that a penny cannot be spent on anything right now... not even training or to attend a conference that would cost $300. While MANY other field offices are operating as normal sending them across the world for advance training, buying up vehicles, equipment, blackberry's, and toughbooks for their officers. Just my opinion from what I've seen.Last edited by CBPO I; 05-16-2010, 10:00 AM.
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Originally posted by CBPO I View PostThe only cost to the government to conduct a polygraph that I can see is running the electricity to operate the machine. Other than that everything else is already in place.
The examiner has to do more than run tests 8 hours a day, they have to write reports, maintain equipement ect, ect. 40 examiners could not keep up with the officers on the SW border doing 5 years and exams for cause (why is it that the load cars caught at the check point always come from the lane this guy runs). Then throw in all the BPAs and you have used these guys up quick. The FBI has many fewer agents, and they don't always catch the bad guys (ever see the movie "Breach" he passed every one of his polys)
Using them on new hires makes more sense as there are not as many, you can make them come to you on their dime and they are unknown as to their truthfulness. Polygraphs are tools, not a reason to kick someone due to inconclusive responses. Think of it more as a metal detector, it lets you know where to dig instead of just digging blindly.Life is what happens while you are waiting for something better to come along.
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Originally posted by biggdawgdaddy View PostThink of it more as a metal detector, it lets you know where to dig instead of just digging blindly.Live to work... or Work to live - YOUR Choice.
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Originally posted by biggdawgdaddy View PostTravel is a huge expense, they have to either bring the people to the examiner or the examiner to them. Supplys for the examiners, keeping the machines up to date, and the examiner training.
The examiner has to do more than run tests 8 hours a day, they have to write reports, maintain equipement ect, ect. 40 examiners could not keep up with the officers on the SW border doing 5 years and exams for cause (why is it that the load cars caught at the check point always come from the lane this guy runs). Then throw in all the BPAs and you have used these guys up quick. The FBI has many fewer agents, and they don't always catch the bad guys (ever see the movie "Breach" he passed every one of his polys)
Using them on new hires makes more sense as there are not as many, you can make them come to you on their dime and they are unknown as to their truthfulness. Polygraphs are tools, not a reason to kick someone due to inconclusive responses. Think of it more as a metal detector, it lets you know where to dig instead of just digging blindly.
You're also talking about expenses for the polygrapher that is already factored into their job and won't change if they introduce it for all new hires (supplies, machine maintenance, training). CBP is spending that money for them already, which brings me back to my point that it would cost them not to use them.
Polygraphs are not, and will not be used for periodical exams, that's already been settled by the union. As for their usefulness I personally think they suck, so don't confuse my argument for their future use as my backing. The number 40 I provided was only a low, rough estimate that was provided back in May of 2009. It's quite possible they have doubled or tripled their staff since then.
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Originally posted by CBPO I View PostEvery agency I know of with the exception of the Postal Service and maybe the FBI, makes the applicant come to them for tests, interviews, and polygraphs at their own expense. I know in my previous experience I have had to fly to three different cities for three different agencies for various reasons on my dime.
I think one day CBP can be one of the "prestige agencies", but to quote an instructor I once had, "We ain't there yet." A lot needs to change with how we do things, but the mission of the agency can lead it to be a highly desirable job. CBP is a young agency, although elements of it have been around for a very long time. Once leadership figures out exactly what and how we are to do things in the combined environment, we will be free to actually do them. Currently how we do the job seems to change too often, to allow us to get good at how we go about completing the mission. I write this up to being relatively young. Once the growing pains are figured out then the agency can be on the path to being outstanding.But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
For the intelectually challenged: If the government screws the people enough, it is the right and responsibility of the people to revolt and form a new government.
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If we're talking of increased expenses associated with the poly, then we likely need to dig deeper.
Testing, scoring, sending out NOR's, starting BI's, and all the rest of the initial hiring pipeline more or less count too, at least for that percentage of people who need to be brought into the system to replace those in the applicant pool who end up being removed through the poly process.Last edited by merlin436; 05-17-2010, 08:14 AM.
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Originally posted by CBPO I View PostEvery agency I know of with the exception of the Postal Service and maybe the FBI, makes the applicant come to them for tests, interviews, and polygraphs at their own expense. I know in my previous experience I have had to fly to three different cities for three different agencies for various reasons on my dime.
You're also talking about expenses for the polygrapher that is already factored into their job and won't change if they introduce it for all new hires (supplies, machine maintenance, training). CBP is spending that money for them already, which brings me back to my point that it would cost them not to use them.
Polygraphs are not, and will not be used for periodical exams, that's already been settled by the union. As for their usefulness I personally think they suck, so don't confuse my argument for their future use as my backing. The number 40 I provided was only a low, rough estimate that was provided back in May of 2009. It's quite possible they have doubled or tripled their staff since then.
FB
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Originally posted by imlikeaninja View PostWhy did I just get another NOR from MHC ? WTF?
I just got one on the 5th and I swear they just send them out every couple of months for no reason. I think this is the 7th or 8th one I have gotten from the April '09 announcement.Current 1811
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