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  • Originally posted by SSG_MP View Post
    Well I got Vet Pref and my TO date puts me a year and a half sooner than my TSU date (because of deployment)..but does the fact that I qualified as a GS-07 hurt me???
    From what I've seen/heard GS-7 or GS-5 are a wash as far as the money for hiring. A 7 should be able to be more productive more quickly because they already posses some of the skills they will need, hence the higher pay. A GS-5 typically does not already posses enough of the required skills and will most likely take a bit longer to be as productive as the GS-7, hence the lower pay. This is of course in a perfect world where the HR people are all knowledgeable and proficient and the applicant can accurately detail their qualifications.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

    For the intelectually challenged: If the government screws the people enough, it is the right and responsibility of the people to revolt and form a new government.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kc12 View Post
      From what I've seen/heard GS-7 or GS-5 are a wash as far as the money for hiring. A 7 should be able to be more productive more quickly because they already posses some of the skills they will need, hence the higher pay. A GS-5 typically does not already posses enough of the required skills and will most likely take a bit longer to be as productive as the GS-7, hence the lower pay. This is of course in a perfect world where the HR people are all knowledgeable and proficient and the applicant can accurately detail their qualifications.
      Could they actually pick the 7's over the 5's because of higher probability?

      Or, would they pick all the 5's first cause its cheaper?

      Or, will they select by TO/VET, regardless of grade?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SSG_MP View Post
        Could they actually pick the 7's over the 5's because of higher probability?

        Or, would they pick all the 5's first cause its cheaper?

        Or, will they select by TO/VET, regardless of grade?
        5 or 7 is irrelevant the cost is a wash. You only receive the 7 IF you have documented enough of the skills required to do the job that a 5 would have learned being on the job for one year. If you do not have those skills you will be rated a 5. A 7 is not just given. Out the applicant must be able to show that they have performed the skills listed in the qualifications for at least a year to be granted a 7.

        In the event of a vet, there is no exception in the law for grade levels. The only basis for hiring a person over another with vet preference is a skill making a person better qualified that the vet. In the case of CBP the "skill" is determined by the taking of a written test. This is put into practice by the manner CBP issues TO's. If the cut off is 90% then everyone who scored higher than 90% receives a TO. The vet, even though they might score 90 and a non vet scores 98 are supposed to be placed higher on the hiring list. If they are not it is a prohibited personnel practice that can result in people being reprimanded and the HR nightmare. In this type of hiring the cut off scores are the categories that divide the skill of the groups. So a vet who scored 89 would be lumped in with everyone who scored 80-90, if that was the cut off. The vet would not compete for a job with the people who scored above 90, because that was a different cut off. Is all of this making sense?
        But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

        For the intelectually challenged: If the government screws the people enough, it is the right and responsibility of the people to revolt and form a new government.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kc12 View Post
          5 or 7 is irrelevant the cost is a wash. You only receive the 7 IF you have documented enough of the skills required to do the job that a 5 would have learned being on the job for one year. If you do not have those skills you will be rated a 5. A 7 is not just given. Out the applicant must be able to show that they have performed the skills listed in the qualifications for at least a year to be granted a 7.

          In the event of a vet, there is no exception in the law for grade levels. The only basis for hiring a person over another with vet preference is a skill making a person better qualified that the vet. In the case of CBP the "skill" is determined by the taking of a written test. This is put into practice by the manner CBP issues TO's. If the cut off is 90% then everyone who scored higher than 90% receives a TO. The vet, even though they might score 90 and a non vet scores 98 are supposed to be placed higher on the hiring list. If they are not it is a prohibited personnel practice that can result in people being reprimanded and the HR nightmare. In this type of hiring the cut off scores are the categories that divide the skill of the groups. So a vet who scored 89 would be lumped in with everyone who scored 80-90, if that was the cut off. The vet would not compete for a job with the people who scored above 90, because that was a different cut off. Is all of this making sense?
          Gotcha...

          I was asking about the 5/7 only because lots of people on the board said that CBP would probably select 5's first to save money, so I just wasnt sure if that was true, that actually screws all of us who qualified as 7's.

          And about the TO groups, I didn't really know any of that, good stuff, thanks for the info.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by kc12 View Post
            From what I've seen/heard GS-7 or GS-5 are a wash as far as the money for hiring. A 7 should be able to be more productive more quickly because they already posses some of the skills they will need, hence the higher pay. A GS-5 typically does not already posses enough of the required skills and will most likely take a bit longer to be as productive as the GS-7, hence the lower pay. This is of course in a perfect world where the HR people are all knowledgeable and proficient and the applicant can accurately detail their qualifications.
            I completely understand your theory and you logic makes perfect sense. However, this is the government you're talking about. There is no rhyme or reason some come in as a 7 opposed to a 5. When I was with CBP, there was a lot of annomosity created when the dumbest people in our port started walking around with their 9 decorations on their shoulder a year on the job when the guy with a degree that spent 3 years as an engineer hired on first and is still walking around with his/her 5. I'm not speaking from bias becuase I came in as a 7 also, but if you know how to play the game on your application and articulate things correctly, you can come in as a seven coming from a construction job or leaving a shift supervisor job at an oil change place.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SSG_MP View Post
              Gotcha...

              I was asking about the 5/7 only because lots of people on the board said that CBP would probably select 5's first to save money, so I just wasnt sure if that was true, that actually screws all of us who qualified as 7's.

              And about the TO groups, I didn't really know any of that, good stuff, thanks for the info.

              As far as I know...they do offer TOs based on the GS05/GS07 difference. As in, if all else is equal, they'll call applicants willing to take GS05's first. The GS05/GS07 difference might also come into play during qualification time, as in it's harder to qualify as a GS07...so it might take more time and effort to adequately establish GS07 qualifications.

              Once one gets to TSU, I've never heard where it makes a difference...one way or another.

              Comment


              • Often, and for a lot of people, the difference between a GS-05 and a GS07 TO is all in how they manage to write up the quals on the application.

                Plus, let's not forget, a lot of people come in accepting GS-05 appointments because GS-05 applicants tend to move through the process quicker and get hired on sooner. The idea, especially in 'real world' situations, that there's a meaningful, practical difference between the skill sets of first year GS05s and first year GS07s isn't something I've seen played out, at least not at anywhere I've been.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Armed Greeter View Post
                  I completely understand your theory and you logic makes perfect sense. However, this is the government you're talking about. There is no rhyme or reason some come in as a 7 opposed to a 5. When I was with CBP, there was a lot of annomosity created when the dumbest people in our port started walking around with their 9 decorations on their shoulder a year on the job when the guy with a degree that spent 3 years as an engineer hired on first and is still walking around with his/her 5. I'm not speaking from bias becuase I came in as a 7 also, but if you know how to play the game on your application and articulate things correctly, you can come in as a seven coming from a construction job or leaving a shift supervisor job at an oil change place.
                  This is true, that's why I put the caveat in post #19879.
                  But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

                  For the intelectually challenged: If the government screws the people enough, it is the right and responsibility of the people to revolt and form a new government.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by merlin436 View Post
                    As far as I know...they do offer TOs based on the GS05/GS07 difference. As in, if all else is equal, they'll call applicants willing to take GS05's first. The GS05/GS07 difference might also come into play during qualification time, as in it's harder to qualify as a GS07...so it might take more time and effort to adequately establish GS07 qualifications.

                    Once one gets to TSU, I've never heard where it makes a difference...one way or another.
                    When I applied, and I assume it is still similar, whether I was a 5 or 7 wasn't determined until well after I received my TO. If I remembere correctly, it was just before the BI was completed.
                    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

                    For the intelectually challenged: If the government screws the people enough, it is the right and responsibility of the people to revolt and form a new government.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kc12 View Post
                      When I applied, and I assume it is still similar, whether I was a 5 or 7 wasn't determined until well after I received my TO. If I remembere correctly, it was just before the BI was completed.
                      I think its different now. I received my TO a month after the NOR, and the TO specifically said you are pre selected for GS-07, and this was way before my B.I. was even initiated. I don't remember exactly, but I think we had to turn in Quals, documents and forms before we received or TO, and that's who your TO grade was determined, after the Quals were reviewed.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by merlin436 View Post
                        Well...there appears to be a run on pessimism lately.

                        All most of you really need to do is sit back, go on with your lives and await the call. It'll come eventually. All this negativity just wears on you. Worry and lamentation might just bring you a stomach ulcer, but it won't bring that eventual call even one tiny step closer.
                        It's also a good learning experience for what you'll face in your career. Red tape, bureaucratic snafus and other such frustrations don't end when you get the call. It's just that you're getting paid while you're dealing with them.

                        Comment


                        • TO 6-16-2008 for E. Texas
                          TO-6/16/08
                          TSU-E.TX 12/01/08

                          Comment


                          • I am actually pretty happy that they changed it to our TO date instead of TSU. I was pretty frustrated with the hiring unit while getting through my medical stuff. I faxed (3 times) and mailed (twice) my letter from an orthopedic doctor saying I was cleared to continue with the hiring process before they received it (or as I believe "found" it). It was pretty annoying. I also had to go to a pulmonologist and couldn't get into one for seven weeks. I had to ask for an extension for my due date for my medical followup info. Seemed silly I was going to a pulmonologist for asthma that hadn't shown signs since I was seven. The appointment took about 7 minutes when I finally got there...once again pretty annoyed I had to wait seven weeks for a 7 minute appointment, but at least I was cleared for everything.

                            My TO Date: 12/08 for Maine

                            Comment


                            • Hopeful09: PM sent.
                              CBPO
                              Written 08/08
                              TO 02/09
                              TSU 06/09
                              BI Expired 04/10
                              Polygraph 06/10--Passed
                              Met with 2nd BI--07/10
                              TSU 08/10

                              CBP BPA
                              Written 08/10
                              TO 09/10
                              TSU 11/10
                              THE CALL: 03/02/2011
                              FLETC: 04/04/2011--06/20/2011

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hopeful09 View Post
                                I am actually pretty happy that they changed it to our TO date instead of TSU. I was pretty frustrated with the hiring unit while getting through my medical stuff. I faxed (3 times) and mailed (twice) my letter from an orthopedic doctor saying I was cleared to continue with the hiring process before they received it (or as I believe "found" it). It was pretty annoying. I also had to go to a pulmonologist and couldn't get into one for seven weeks. I had to ask for an extension for my due date for my medical followup info. Seemed silly I was going to a pulmonologist for asthma that hadn't shown signs since I was seven. The appointment took about 7 minutes when I finally got there...once again pretty annoyed I had to wait seven weeks for a 7 minute appointment, but at least I was cleared for everything.

                                My TO Date: 12/08 for Maine
                                I have to agree with you. I have a burp on my EKG that I had to address. Then getting my documents from my Dr. was trying to get Jesus Christ to go out and have a beer with you. To add insult to injury, the documents he FINALLY sent were wrong and unexceptable. Repeat said non-sense again. Then all of the other tests CBP wanted me to do had to be scheduled the latest as possible so I could take off work without raising suspicion to my supervisors (Could not tell them I was TOed with CBP, or they would have fired me. They fired me 2 weeks after my BI came). Plus most of my references had to be scheduled with my BI, as they are not availible on the drop of the dime. When everything was all said and done, I was TSUed with people who got T.O.'s in later months, as opposed to those who TOed with me who have TSUed in earlier months.

                                I personally think this is how they've been doing it all along. Its just that it always worked out that once you were in TSU, you weren't staying long. It just APPEARED that they hire base on TSU.

                                Comment

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