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  • Originally posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
    If anyone was in need of a real-life definition of "Mission Creep", just look at the DHS hydra. Let's ask ourselves if it is really necessary to have 30 different agencies doing the exact same thing. Remember when U.S. Customs was U.S. Customs?

    Sure, integrate the higher ups, but specialization is the hallmark of human progress to date.
    CBP is a young agency, still coming into it's own. There are gonna be alot more changes before it's all said and done. Eventually some one will get it right. At least I hope the powers that be get it right.
    Don't tase me bro!!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by merlin436 View Post
      Sheesh...

      CBPO's are not getting tasers.

      Border Patrol is implementing a very narrow program to test tasers amongst it's agents within a very limited scope along the southern border.

      The chances of any line CBPO's being taser certified in the near future are slim to none.
      This was posted a year ago.... Does anyone know if its still a no taser rule?? I know Merlin said around 2023!!! Would be nice to have one...I better be more concerned about getting into TSU first but since there is nothing else new to talk about (except how awesome the Saints are doing), thought I would bring it up.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
        If anyone was in need of a real-life definition of "Mission Creep", just look at the DHS hydra. Let's ask ourselves if it is really necessary to have 30 different agencies doing the exact same thing. Remember when U.S. Customs was U.S. Customs?

        Sure, integrate the higher ups, but specialization is the hallmark of human progress to date.
        Who does the same thing as anyone else?

        Comment


        • I read an article about CBP and taser a few weeks back. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/TASER-....html?x=0&.v=1

          Comment


          • Originally posted by cajunchik View Post
            This was posted a year ago.... Does anyone know if its still a no taser rule?? I know Merlin said around 2023!!! Would be nice to have one...I better be more concerned about getting into TSU first but since there is nothing else new to talk about (except how awesome the Saints are doing), thought I would bring it up.

            Merlin was wrong.

            There are currently TASERS in the field within OFO on what is currently a limited basis, mostly if not exclusively on the southern border.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
              Are you sure? BPA is a much more physically demanding job than CBPO. That letter sounded alot like the fitness letter than CBPO's get. Maybe as our fitness requirements have gone up, so have theirs. My old letter said something along the lines of "before I enter on duty I will have to be scheduled for a PT test". I doubt that they will ask us to do this In addition to the new fitness requirements so soon after changing them on us.

              No, I'm not sure. As I said, that was my opinion.

              Our standards have increased markedly over the last few years. In today's world, with the introduction of 6C/12D retirement, a 37 YO maximum hire age, GS-12 pay and all the other changes...plus the fact that CBP now has to hire for far fewer positions then they have for the last few years(for both CBPO's and BPA's), I expect hiring to change. I expect the Academy to change too. Supposedly it's going to a 19 week Basic in 2011. I expect it to get tougher as well.

              As I said, I think it's "writing on the wall" as far as OFO goes. If it is, those folks who put off getting into graduation shape before heading off to the Academy are going to get one nasty surprise if/when they see a 30 day fitness letter in the mailbox. Forewarned is forearmed. Those who meet those fitness requirements long before "getting the call" really have much less to worry about.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by madchiken View Post
                Who does the same thing as anyone else?
                What is the purpose of more physical training? Customs officers seldom chase anyone and rarely leave a controlled environment from what I understand. I use the word rarely because words like "never" get people upset.

                I'd bet that many officers at JFK have pulled their sidearm ONCE in their entire careers and that was when a guy screamed because his feet were cut off in the baggage conveyor.

                The only reason for this move that I can tell is that they want to integrate BPA, CBPO and IEA at some point and have super cops in an airport stamp booth. Would it be strange to have IRS officers in peak physical condition as a job requirement?

                I understand If we need enough strength to avoid having our weapon taken from us, but for those of us who want to see us become border patrol - have ye no sense of proper comportment? Classic mission creep.

                For the record I'm just shooting from the cuff. My opinion is divided - I think it is fine that the PT requirements are going up, but at some point people need to recognize what the job is and what it needs to be. We already have a border patrol and immigration enforcement.

                Again, I'm ready for academy now, so lay off of the Ad Hominim. All we ever hear is "if you want to be a cop, be a cop". Same goes for IEA and BPA. Customs in its own animal.
                Last edited by TuffStuffCBP; 10-19-2009, 12:53 AM.
                CBPO
                GEO - NY/JFK
                TEST - 03/08 (NOR: 04/08)

                TO - 01/09
                PE Forms - Completed
                Fitness - Completed
                VBT - 03/09 - Completed
                Drug Screen - Completed
                Qual - 05/09 - Completed
                B.I. - 05/09 - Completed
                Medical - 05/09 - Completed
                TSU


                EOD: ???
                FLETC: ???

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
                  What is the purpose of more physical training? Customs officers seldom chase anyone and rarely leave a controlled environment from what I understand. I use the word rarely because words like "never" get people upset.
                  So you have a problem with physical training? So because it seldom happens there is no reason to prepare for it? CBP is finally trying to get rid of the clerks with guns attitude, maybe you should as well.

                  I'd bet that many officers at JFK have pulled their sidearm ONCE in their entire careers and that was when a guy screamed because his feet were cut off in the baggage conveyor.
                  Your point? Should we cancel firearm quals for anyone who works in an airport because they don't get in shootouts every week?

                  The only reason for this move that I can tell is that they want to integrate BPA, CBPO and IEA at some point and have super cops in an airport stamp booth. Would it be strange to have IRS officers in peak physical condition as a job requirement?
                  Actually you would be surprised at what those IRS guys get into. You'd be even more surprised if you saw what some of them look like...

                  I understand If we need enough strength the avoid having out weapon taken from up, but for those of us who want to see us become border patrol - have ye no sense of proper comportment? Classic mission creep.
                  Fighting for your weapon has less to do with strength and more to do with stamina and technique. You might learn a lesson from an exercise we did when I went through a police academy. Take off your shoe and have someone try to take it for 3-5 minutes... I'm not going to try and translate that second part.


                  For the record I'm just shooting from the cuff. My opinion is divided - I think it is fine that the PT requirements are going up, but at some point people need to recognize what the job is and what it needs to be. We already have a border patrol and immigration enforcement.
                  What do you think CBPO's are? What is the job, to just stamp passports with a gun on your hip? People with that attitude is why I spend more time on the highway catching dope that came through the ports than working the line.

                  Again, I'm ready for academy now, so lay off of the Ad Hominim. All we ever hear is "if you want to be a cop, be a cop". Same goes for IEA and BPA. Customs in its own animal.
                  Not sure where that came from or why you posted it? Maybe if you would have answered my question of which 30 agencies in DHS all do the same thing.
                  Last edited by madchiken; 10-19-2009, 01:12 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by machine View Post
                    So you have a problem with physical training? So because it seldom happens there is no reason to prepare for it? CBP is finally trying to get rid of the clerks with guns attitude, maybe you should as well.

                    Your point? Should we cancel firearm quals for anyone who works in an airport because they don't get in shootouts every week?

                    Actually you would be surprised at what those IRS guys get into. You'd be even more surprised if you saw what some of them look like...

                    Fighting for your weapon has less to do with strength and more to do with stamina and technique. You might learn a lesson from an exercise we did when I went through a police academy. Take off your shoe and have someone try to take it for 3-5 minutes... I'm not going to try and translate that second part.

                    What do you think CBPO's are? What is the job, to just stamp passports with a gun on your hip? People with that attitude is why I spend more time on the highway catching dope that came through the ports than working the line.

                    Not sure where that came from or why you posted it? Maybe if you would have answered my question of which 30 agencies in DHS all do the same thing.
                    "Clerks with guns" is what Airport CBP is, from what I've heard. There is nothing wrong with that and they are still law enforcement. Police officers are rarely in controlled environments, so they need to be harder individuals. The airport is literally like the precinct, 24/7. Do you need to go ballistic on someone who is a bit bonkers at the precinct or can you rest a bit easier knowing that there are layers upon layers of protection 360 degrees around you. We don't all need to be mini Rambo's when mom, dad and baby Kimmy are coming home from Hawaii and brought back a pineapple 90% of the time.

                    You deal with perps day in and day out, Airport CBPOs deal with businessmen and legit travelers. In the event that they meet a bad guy they have perma-backup and suffocate bad guys in red tape and bureaucracy. Nothing is more brutal and soul-crushing than bureaucracy.

                    Basic physical ability has quite a bit to do with not being overpowered, hence the word "overpowered", not "over-techniqued".

                    30 was a wild overstatement, but I'm pretty sure that you get the point.

                    I am not LE. I just read the forums day in and day out and do a bit of travelling. I have respect for CBPO's and want to become one. I currently sell insurance. I'm good at getting information out of people. I will become an insurance agent with a gun, badge and an appropriate level of tactical training. Makes sense to me.
                    Last edited by TuffStuffCBP; 10-19-2009, 01:35 AM.
                    CBPO
                    GEO - NY/JFK
                    TEST - 03/08 (NOR: 04/08)

                    TO - 01/09
                    PE Forms - Completed
                    Fitness - Completed
                    VBT - 03/09 - Completed
                    Drug Screen - Completed
                    Qual - 05/09 - Completed
                    B.I. - 05/09 - Completed
                    Medical - 05/09 - Completed
                    TSU


                    EOD: ???
                    FLETC: ???

                    Comment


                    • Originally Posted by TuffStuffCBP
                      If anyone was in need of a real-life definition of "Mission Creep", just look at the DHS hydra. Let's ask ourselves if it is really necessary to have 30 different agencies doing the exact same thing. Remember when U.S. Customs was U.S. Customs?

                      Sure, integrate the higher ups, but specialization is the hallmark of human progress to date.
                      Lets start over, how are the DHS agencies doing the same thing?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by madchiken View Post
                        Lets start over, how are the DHS agencies doing the same thing?
                        Not just DHS. "Exact same" is another phrase not to use on forums.

                        CBP, BP and ICE for example. Take "30" and remove the "0". Throw TSA in there, and DEA and FBI etc. How many Federal agencies with different uniforms do we need to investgate and enforce drug laws? Roles have broadened so much over the years that there is always some overlap. I think that the 4 transit agencies should integrate while the individual job descriptions should narrow.

                        They arn't doing the exact same things. Not everybody needs to be a generalist. My point is that Customs doesn't have to be exactly like Border patrol because it isn't and the jobs are different. For one you need to be able to run 10 miles be exposed to elements and tackle people. For the other you need to have more acumen for regulation. A book nerd if you will.

                        The point is double edged. Have one hierarchy but hire unique specialists to do specific jobs. Both might carry a gun but one is probably much more likely to use it.
                        What do I know? Very little.
                        Last edited by TuffStuffCBP; 10-19-2009, 02:25 AM.
                        CBPO
                        GEO - NY/JFK
                        TEST - 03/08 (NOR: 04/08)

                        TO - 01/09
                        PE Forms - Completed
                        Fitness - Completed
                        VBT - 03/09 - Completed
                        Drug Screen - Completed
                        Qual - 05/09 - Completed
                        B.I. - 05/09 - Completed
                        Medical - 05/09 - Completed
                        TSU


                        EOD: ???
                        FLETC: ???

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Code Seven
                          Ain't that the truth.
                          Quite a bit of what you posted was rather similar for the 4 agencies that I was reffering to. Customs is primarily a processing and inspection service, not a kick the door down and shoot you service. When they do stumble on a large cache of drugs, weaons and other contraband it tends to be in a controlled environment.

                          I'm simply arguing that some people here who are embarrassed that Customs is a distinct service from more gung-ho agencies want Customs to not make them personally look bad at Fletc. Fit is one thing, but don't focus on the PT. You need to make sure that people can move when times require it, but bashing fatties is just pointless.

                          I fail to see why someone who is slightly overweight or has a medical problem shouldn't do this job because certain officers need to have a shlong measuring contest over PT.

                          Customs seems like a cool job to have and I'll do it with intensity, maybe I'll move on to a more gung-ho agency in the future, but I'd be happy to have the job as it is. I'm not going to treat it like an Insurance job, but it isn't the Marine corps either.

                          Only time will tell what this job is like. Again - I am not Law Enforcement and have no real knowledge of DHS aside from what I se at the airport, watch on TV and read from these forums with the occasional wiki browse.
                          Last edited by TuffStuffCBP; 10-19-2009, 08:06 AM.
                          CBPO
                          GEO - NY/JFK
                          TEST - 03/08 (NOR: 04/08)

                          TO - 01/09
                          PE Forms - Completed
                          Fitness - Completed
                          VBT - 03/09 - Completed
                          Drug Screen - Completed
                          Qual - 05/09 - Completed
                          B.I. - 05/09 - Completed
                          Medical - 05/09 - Completed
                          TSU


                          EOD: ???
                          FLETC: ???

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
                            I am not Law Enforcement and have no real knowledge of DHS aside from what I se at the airport, watch on TV and read from these forums with the occasional wiki browse.
                            So what you're saying is you have no idea how federal law enforcement works or any clue of what you are talking about.

                            Comment


                            • DAY 179 in TSU

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
                                I fail to see why someone who is slightly overweight or has a medical problem shouldn't do this job because certain officers need to have a shlong measuring contest over PT.
                                Bahahaa!!! Im sorry, I know you guys are in the middle of a little tiff but, i love this quote.

                                Comment

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