CBP officer

[seeOH]

Yes, I can run the 1.5 in under 15, do over 40 pushups at a time and do 10 slow pull-ups before somebody tries to insinuate that I'm a couch potato myself.

No body would say that

[ifoCBP]

This training had been left to the ports. Some would not see the use, where others did the training. Adding it to the Basic course ensures that everyone has the training. It would not add more than a few hours even with carbine training.

a few hours? wow. You can't even properly zero the weapon in that amount of time, never mind learn how to break it down and clean it. Not to mention the 556 has hardly any knock down power and definitely will not cut through car doors or even certain types of hardened plastics. Have you ever used a m-4 or m-16 that someone else zeroed? Your shots and groups are way off. They should put shot guns in those chase cars with LE shot gun shells.

[seeOH]

....Not to mention the 556 has hardly any knock down power and definitely will not cut through car doors or even certain types of hardened plastics. ....

You're right that 5.56's don't have a lot of knock down power. What they do have is kinetic energy. I have seen first hand that a 5.56 55grain Full Metal Jacket penetrate 1/4" steel plates at 100 yards. I'd be willing to bet they penetrate hard plastics and car doors. We train for that stuff at my job and I wouldn't see why L.E. and the military would use a 5.56 if it didn't penetrate plastics and car doors. Not to mention... it's not like you're firing one round. It only takes a couple of well placed rounds to penetrate even thicker steel plates. You'd be suprised what 55grain FMJ's can do.

[ifoCBP]

You're right that 5.56's don't have a lot of knock down power. What they do have is kinetic energy. I have seen first hand that a 5.56 55grain Full Metal Jacket penetrate 1/4" steel plates at 100 yards. I'd be willing to bet they penetrate hard plastics and car doors. We train for that stuff at my job and I wouldn't see why L.E. and the military would use a 5.56 if it didn't penetrate plastics and car doors. Not to mention... it's not like you're firing one round. It only takes a couple of well placed rounds to penetrate even thicker steel plates. You'd be suprised what 55grain FMJ's can do.

I was in the army and have witnessed first hand the failures of the carbine and 556. A little sand, dirt, moisture, can cause nightmares. In all my years I have never seen it penetrate thick steel. I have seen it stopped by cinder block walls. As far as well placed shots, in order to have well placed shots you need practice. A few hours of training will not cut it. I believe the military uses the 556 because they are stuck with it. It's also a NATO round. Many, many people currently in the military are pushing for a larger round. 6.7-6.8

[DCH]

a few hours? wow. You can't even properly zero the weapon in that amount of time, never mind learn how to break it down and clean it. Not to mention the 556 has hardly any knock down power and definitely will not cut through car doors or even certain types of hardened plastics. Have you ever used a m-4 or m-16 that someone else zeroed? Your shots and groups are way off. They should put shot guns in those chase cars with LE shot gun shells.

???

[seeOH]

I was in the army and have witnessed first hand the failures of the carbine and 556. A little sand, dirt, moisture, can cause nightmares. In all my years I have never seen it penetrate thick steel. I have seen it stopped by cinder block walls. As far as well placed shots, in order to have well placed shots you need practice. A few hours of training will not cut it. I believe the military uses the 556 because they are stuck with it. It's also a NATO round. Many, many people currently in the military are pushing for a larger round. 6.7-6.8

Oh, I never disagreed about the actual weapon. I agree the carbines are a pain the @$$. I just disagree with the penetration capabilities since I have seen it first hand. Thats all. And yes, a few hours of training is not sufficient to train someone with an M4 or any AR style receiver. I have shot the 6.8mm SPC and I like it. It's definitely a mix between a .223 and .308 (which is the reason why it was designed...). If you get a chance... shot a round or two. It's flat shooting and low recoil for a 115 grain bullet. I like it.

Enough of gun talk, we can PM about that. Back to the reason why this forum is here

[kc12]

If we're talking about "I wish the academy had..." I'll throw in my two cents. I wish the academy had more cargo training. The two or three days we had is/was of little use. The DT/PT, shooting, and computers is about the only thing I have needed to retain, the rest of the academy was a waste of time, for my current assignment.

I know it will never happen, but I'd like to see a core curriculum for the academy then follow on classes depending on where you are assigned. Hit the areas everyone needs, computers, DT/PT, firearms, officer safety, lightly hit cargo and immigration in the core classes. The follow on courses would provide more in depth training for immigration or cargo. This would allow exposure to all aspects of the job, while at the same time limiting the training that will be forgotten within a few weeks or months after graduating the basic academy. I learned a lot of information when I went through the academy. I was at the top of the class on all tests and missed the overall award by less than a point (if I would have answered one more question correctly on any test I would have earned the overall award), but most of what I learned was useless information to my current port and I have forgotten almost all of it through lack of use.

From what I've heard, most people are barely able to perform the job once they graduate and go to an immigration port anyway, so why train people who aren't going to that type of port extensively in that skill? The same with the cargo side of the house. There are a lot of cargo skills not being trained at the academy that are done through OJT. These skills and more basic knowledge would be better trained formally at FLETC. It makes about as much sense to extensively train someone going to an immigration port in cargo specialties, as it does to train someone going to a cargo port in immigration specialties. We need to be familiar with all of the information, but in reality the details of what we learn is going to be forgotten if we don't use it.

[barnaj]

If we're talking about "I wish the academy had..." I'll throw in my two cents. I wish the academy had more cargo training. The two or three days we had is/was of little use. The DT/PT, shooting, and computers is about the only thing I have needed to retain, the rest of the academy was a waste of time, for my current assignment.

I know it will never happen, but I'd like to see a core curriculum for the academy then follow on classes depending on where you are assigned. Hit the areas everyone needs, computers, DT/PT, firearms, officer safety, lightly hit cargo and immigration in the core classes. The follow on courses would provide more in depth training for immigration or cargo. This would allow exposure to all aspects of the job, while at the same time limiting the training that will be forgotten within a few weeks or months after graduating the basic academy. I learned a lot of information when I went through the academy. I was at the top of the class on all tests and missed the overall award by less than a point (if I would have answered one more question correctly on any test I would have earned the overall award), but most of what I learned was useless information to my current port and I have forgotten almost all of it through lack of use.

From what I've heard, most people are barely able to perform the job once they graduate and go to an immigration port anyway, so why train people who aren't going to that type of port extensively in that skill? The same with the cargo side of the house. There are a lot of cargo skills not being trained at the academy that are done through OJT. These skills and more basic knowledge would be better trained formally at FLETC. It makes about as much sense to extensively train someone going to an immigration port in cargo specialties, as it does to train someone going to a cargo port in immigration specialties. We need to be familiar with all of the information, but in reality the details of what we learn is going to be forgotten if we don't use it.

Yep. For example, the CBPI cirriculum has more agriculture classes than it does questioning labs. What sense does that make? Ag should be touched on for a few hours and leave the rest to agriculture specialists. Just one of the things that i hope have changed since 2007.

[CMUnupe]

CMUnupe,

I remember hearing of that EOD thing. I wonder, do they do that anymore?

I don't think so. It's been switched to TSU and that's it.

[bflogirl]

Where are all the "I got the call" posts! Ha ha wishful thinking!!

[merlin436]

Yep. For example, the CBPI cirriculum has more agriculture classes than it does questioning labs. What sense does that make? Ag should be touched on for a few hours and leave the rest to agriculture specialists. Just one of the things that i hope have changed since 2007.

CBPO's do the majority of Ag work in most ports. That's because most ports do not staff Aggies on a regular basis. Hence the need for those going to small/midsized ports to train/keep up with the Ag duties.

[ifoCBP]

Oh, I never disagreed about the actual weapon. I agree the carbines are a pain the @$$. I just disagree with the penetration capabilities since I have seen it first hand. Thats all. And yes, a few hours of training is not sufficient to train someone with an M4 or any AR style receiver. I have shot the 6.8mm SPC and I like it. It's definitely a mix between a .223 and .308 (which is the reason why it was designed...). If you get a chance... shot a round or two. It's flat shooting and low recoil for a 115 grain bullet. I like it.

Enough of gun talk, we can PM about that. Back to the reason why this forum is here

I would like to shoot the 6.8 someday, I hear good things.
okay, that was my last gun comment.

[Sytes]

CBPO's are not exempt from ag responsibilities... Heck, it is AMAZING how many hats we wear. From EPA to DOT. IMO, AG is an important aspect of our responsibility though I do agree... The core fundamentals - the comfort of public communication with the specific intent of identifying truth over lies... white lies.. etc is the KEY #1 function of our job. This in turn should be the KEY #1 focus of training... along with understanding the common visa's / Custom fundamentals.

I agree that it would benefit to cater towards specific port settings in training - Though, to split up a class any further than an A and a B group would pose more problems than success - least IMO.

[MontgCounty33]

I think it's amazing to see all the differences between the states' physical fitness requirements for law enforcement jobs. I live in New York where you have to run at least a 12:29 if you're a male under 30 years of age just to be qualified for an academy. Then you have to run under a 11:50 - 10:43 mins depending on what academy you attend. So when I hear... "13:00 mins!" I seriously want to laugh. And I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or a fitness guru... but that extra 2 - 3 mins is a LOT. I can't imagine having 16:30 mins to run a mile and a half.

But then there are PD's like the Pennsylvania State Police where you need to be under a 16:54 to pass the mile and a half run. That's almost funny. However, they're probably one of the hardest academies on the east coast and their recruits are well below the 17:00 min mark before graduation! (My brother is a PA Trooper so I know this second hand).

Anyways, I think it's crazy how these PT test standards run. It's interesting but crazy. I wonder if any PD's require pull ups? Or the sit and reach? I hate the sit and reach!! Enough rambling. Just wanted to vent after reading about everyone worked up about the run.

16:54??????

You need to run 13:08 in PA for the municipal academies just to get in! Your graduation time needs to be around sub-11 times. I don't know about the time you stated.....but I do agree that PSP is one of the most disciplined/militarized academies that I've ever heard of, not to mention the toughest. C'mon, they don't even allow you to talk at lunch! One of the few in PA that will hire you, send you through the academy (their own), and pay for you while you are there. PA is tough.......

[robeans]

I was in the army and have witnessed first hand the failures of the carbine and 556. A little sand, dirt, moisture, can cause nightmares. In all my years I have never seen it penetrate thick steel. I have seen it stopped by cinder block walls. As far as well placed shots, in order to have well placed shots you need practice. A few hours of training will not cut it. I believe the military uses the 556 because they are stuck with it. It's also a NATO round. Many, many people currently in the military are pushing for a larger round. 6.7-6.8

When you were in the Army, you witnessed the short comings of a Direct Gas Impingement system, not the failings of a carbine or 5.56. The new piston system is already superior, but it will take years to replace with.

The military has stayed with the 5.56 because it's an effective round that is light weight, fast, and very accurate.

Your just spewing out lots of mis-information and urban legends with no real data in your posts.

Fail