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How Honest is Too Honest?

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  • How Honest is Too Honest?

    I've read many (if not all) of the posts on being honest on your application. From what it sounds like, people DQ themselves when honestly answering questions about past drug usage. Sorry to beat the dead horse some more...BUT: If one comes up clean on the drug test but admitted to using and is consequently DQ'ed...well wouldn't it just be smarter to NOT admit it? (Especially if they can't tell if you are actually lying about that? i.e. no drugs in one's system, and the inefficacy of the polygraph...etc.)
    I am not a cop (yet) but I am making the argument that if admitting using drugs will keep you from being hired AND if they will never really know for sure if that is true or not; then one is better off ansering that question "NO". What are your thoughts, officers?
    I am only asking because I am in the application process. I understand that honesty is the best policy. Yet, frankly, it seems stupid to admit drug usage if one is clean and "they'll never know!" (again, especially if that prevents one from getting the job...)
    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by WantItBad!; 09-17-2005, 05:29 PM.

  • #2
    perhaps you just shouldn't have used drugs....

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    • #3
      Sounds like you trying to justify a lie. If you lie and get caught, you

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      • #4
        "BUT: If one comes up clean on the drug test but admitted to using and is consequently DQ'ed...well wouldn't it just be smarter to NOT admit it? (Especially if they can't tell if you are actually lying about that? i.e. no drugs in one's system, and the inefficacy of the polygraph...etc.)"

        That would be LYING. They will find out during this little thing called a background investigation. If you are going to lie, you don't deserve the job.

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        • #5
          Technically, you could do lie...but why risk losing your career like that? Consider these scenarios...1) you lie and get the job. The "lie" doesn't end there, you would have to lie for the rest of your career in LE and chances are, it'll catch up to you one day. 2) You lie and get caught lying on the job. You have lost your integrity as an officer and no one will ever trust you again. 3) you lie and get caught by the BI. Your career in LE is over before it even left the ground...no dept will hire someone who was DQed for lying. Now consider the alternative...tell the truth and get hired based on your integrity and truthfulness. Honesty is the cornerstone of law enforcement...the public entrusts you to "protect and serve". That is a huge responsibility, and if you don't understand that, you have no place in public service or law enforcement.

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          • #6
            I am not trying to JUSTIFY anything....I am asking a theoretical question.

            I understand about the background investigation JKral. Background investigators are not mind readers though..... Also, you did not even answer the question: THe gist of the question is "HOW can they know? and IF they don't KNOW then WHY admit it?"

            I am trying to understand the application process, not beat the system....

            Also, let me clarify: I smoked pot twice in my teenaged years....

            Thanks reuters, you went to the heart of the issue. Perhaps a better way to phrase the question is: Is lying a bigger deal than a little pot smoking?

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            • #7
              Very well stated..reuters!!! I mean what else is there to say good scenarios
              "Inside the ring or out. It doesn't really matter wether your get knock down or not. What you do after does."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by WantItBad!
                I am not trying to JUSTIFY anything....I am asking a theoretical question.

                I understand about the background investigation JKral. Background investigators are not mind readers though..... Also, you did not even answer the question: THe gist of the question is "HOW can they know? and IF they don't KNOW then WHY admit it?"

                I am trying to understand the application process, not beat the system....

                Also, let me clarify: I smoked pot twice in my teenaged years....

                Thanks reuters, you went to the heart of the issue. Perhaps a better way to phrase the question is: Is lying a bigger deal than a little pot smoking?

                it shouldn't matter if they can find out or not...you made the decision to do whatever you did....be a man and own up to it.

                It all usually starts from something simple. "Well, if I can lie about this and get way with it....then why can't just lie about this..and yada yada yada"

                And if it was only 2 times...then apply somewhere else....most agencies will look past that.
                Last edited by BigRed83; 09-17-2005, 07:44 PM. Reason: Because I can't read

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                • #9
                  BidRed,
                  Several things: First of all WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT LAPD? Do you not know how to read? I am from CHICAGO, IL---as it says under my name. What KIND of deputy are you? You are only 22 years old....and not even a sworn police officer... Have you ever sat in a squad car and pulled someone over? If not, you really have nothing worthwhile to say. Your powers of detection are obviously wanting....
                  Secondly, I DID OWN UP TO THE REEFER....ADMITTING IT IS OWNING UP TO IT! Did you actually GO to school?
                  Thirdly, STOP PREACHING. This is a police forum, not a religious one.... IF I wanted to hear an ******* make noise, I'd go to a bathroom.
                  I don't need to hear what some 22 year old deputy thinks.... If I wanted that, I would go and ask a local CPO to help me....not some kid lacking street smarts living in MD...

                  Also, take the time to ACTUALLY READ other posts on this forum. You will see more than one person saying they have been DQ'ed for one time drug usage...

                  NEXT TIME DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE SPITTING OUT HOT AIR.

                  Reuters made a good point and gave me something to think about. Those are the kinds of posts that are worthwhile. No more really needs to be said about this (unless someone else has something INTELLIGENT to say).
                  Last edited by WantItBad!; 09-17-2005, 07:35 PM.

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                  • #10
                    sorry, was actually reading 2 things at once....my mistake

                    And actually yes...I graduated from the University of Maryland...but of what bearing that has on the current conversation I see none. And if you'd like to know why I'm so against just "a little drug use"....it could have something to do with my sister having been killed by a drug dealer...but hey...just a little reefer is cool....******* Owning up to it is more than just admitting it here....its not lying about it in an attempt to get a job

                    And yes...it really does suck being a 22 year old Deputy , and not having to lie to my employer to get hired...it truly does suck getting hired by the first agency you applied to...and the only reason I'm not sworn is because the academy starts in 2 weeks

                    one time drug use...yes you can be DQ'd.....one time pot smoking...9 time out of 10...no....one time DQ's would be coke, heroin, acid..etc..

                    and obviously, along with drug use you have a poor attitude...but good luck in your ventures
                    Last edited by BigRed83; 09-17-2005, 07:46 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Bottom line is this--

                      They will never know if you took any drugs if you dont admit the, background investigators cant find it if you dont admit it, poly's are garbage-PERIOD

                      That being said, it comes down to your integrity and morals--Is a lie worth getting a job? It is a personal choice you have to make and live with.. But IMO most people probably leave out something from their background on purpose

                      Me, I rolled the dice and admitted everything not knowing what would DQ me and what wouldnt, from my drug use, to my arrest, to other various misdeads(fights).and I still got a job offer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FutureLE
                        Bottom line is this--They will never know if you took any drugs if you dont admit the, background investigators cant find it if you dont admit it.
                        The bottem line is this statement is absolutely false becuase you would be amazed what background investigators find...and if proven you lied you create what to called Giglio and Brady material in which you can no longer be hired by any State, Local or Federal LE position...A two usages of MJ in the teenage years is well within most LE agencies hiring limits....Relax at the end of the day your word is all you have and suppose you someday are up for the Chief of Police position, Director of the FBI or you are the lead investigator on a high profile OJ type case and the wennies that you smoked the weed with come out of the woodwork....No reason to spend your entire career looking over you shoulder...Just admit it and go on...not a big deal.....Pistola

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pistola
                          The bottem line is this statement is absolutely false becuase you would be amazed what background investigators find...and if proven you lied you create what to called Giglio and Brady material in which you can no longer be hired by any State, Local or Federal LE position...A two usages of MJ in the teenage years is well within most LE agencies hiring limits....Relax at the end of the day your word is all you have and suppose you someday are up for the Chief of Police position, Director of the FBI or you are the lead investigator on a high profile OJ type case and the wennies that you smoked the weed with come out of the woodwork....No reason to spend your entire career looking over you shoulder...Just admit it and go on...not a big deal.....Pistola
                          I repeat, the background investigator will not find it if you dont tell them.. The only way they could know, is if you gave refs that were idiots and said "Oh yeah me and so and so, smoked crack all the time".. No one is going to list a ref that will say anything negative..

                          And since everytime someone is in a high profile job, or case, there will always be people saying negative things about them to ruin their credibility...Most people dont believe those things when they come out in that situation

                          I am not saying this guy should lie, but people do lie--Even some of the "Moral Superstars" on these police boards lie-- If you dont like that comment, sorry but it is true

                          I admitted my mistakes and still got hired--

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by WantItBad!
                            Thanks reuters, you went to the heart of the issue. Perhaps a better way to phrase the question is: Is lying a bigger deal than a little pot smoking?
                            Past MJ experimentation doesn't usually keep people from becoming LEO's while lying has ended LEO careers. It's really up to you, but I hope you do the right thing. Just remember, choosing the right path now is the first step in becoming an LEO...messing that up will only create problems in the future.

                            Good luck with everything.

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                            • #15
                              Hmmmm, Pistola and FutureLE....interesting points.

                              "Is a lie worth getting a job" Good question, but not really sure about that one. Maybe, maybe not. If only I could use hindsight now!

                              BigRed, sorry to hear about your sister. You stayed away from drugs because of that. In my case: In high school, my best friend was killed by a negligent driver--consequently, I don't fart around in the car. We all have different life experiences. I just don't like being preached at. Giving advice is different than moral superiority. Anyway, let's put the dukes down. Good for you that you start in 2 weeks. I am literally just beginning the application process so I haven't even turned in any papers yet....so no chance to have even been denied. (Putting in the first one tonight or tomorrow.)

                              Okay, so, If I do choose to admit to the reefer on the application, is that going to follow me for my career? Are they going to look harder at me? Will they be less forgiving and more prone to discipline?

                              Comment

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