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  • Psych appeal

    Hello guys, so I got all the way to the pscych. I thought i did fine and all but i got my results and I was told that I failed. I will be appealing, i was wondering if there are any successful candidates that actually won the appeal process. Im shocked as to why i would have failed. Anyone recommend any doctors around san diego area? Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.


    Andres

  • #2
    It means you didn't meet the department criteria. Move on.
    Now go home and get your shine box!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by andres_garcia View Post
      Hello guys, so I got all the way to the pscych. I thought i did fine and all but i got my results and I was told that I failed. I will be appealing, i was wondering if there are any successful candidates that actually won the appeal process. Im shocked as to why i would have failed. Anyone recommend any doctors around san diego area? Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.


      Andres
      Most psych DQ's are based on the questionnaire(s) you had to fill out because they are designed in such a way to allow subtle, or even blatant, personally characteristics that are not desirable in law enforcement to be revealed. As such, I can't see how an appeal would help, given that you'd basically need to say you weren't truthful on some of the questions that were asked. The only way I see you possibly winning an appeal based on the questionnaire would be arguing against the validity of the questionnaire(s) it self, but they've been so heavily researched that I don't that you'll get anywhere with that, or that they would even entertain it.

      If you were DQ'd because of the personal interview, I can't imagine you'd have any success, because it is a totally subjective test and they are going to trust the doctor more than you.

      It sucks, and I'm sorry it happened to you, but it may be for the best.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by andres_garcia View Post
        Any information will be greatly appreciated.
        Oooooh, your going to be sorry you asked.

        Below is the link to the California POST Commission's Psychological Screening Manual. It will tell you more than you wanted to know. Towards the end you will find the section on appeals and second opinions. It explains all the hoops that typically must be jumped through.

        Happy reading!

        http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/...ing_Manual.pdf
        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by L-1 View Post
          Oooooh, your going to be sorry you asked.

          Below is the link to the California POST Commission's Psychological Screening Manual. It will tell you more than you wanted to know. Towards the end you will find the section on appeals and second opinions. It explains all the hoops that typically must be jumped through.

          Happy reading!

          http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/...ing_Manual.pdf
          Originally posted by Pi, Esq. View Post
          Most psych DQ's are based on the questionnaire(s) you had to fill out because they are designed in such a way to allow subtle, or even blatant, personally characteristics that are not desirable in law enforcement to be revealed. As such, I can't see how an appeal would help, given that you'd basically need to say you weren't truthful on some of the questions that were asked. The only way I see you possibly winning an appeal based on the questionnaire would be arguing against the validity of the questionnaire(s) it self, but they've been so heavily researched that I don't that you'll get anywhere with that, or that they would even entertain it.

          If you were DQ'd because of the personal interview, I can't imagine you'd have any success, because it is a totally subjective test and they are going to trust the doctor more than you.

          It sucks, and I'm sorry it happened to you, but it may be for the best.
          Hey,

          Thanks a lot for the information man, i really appreciate it. It really sucks that i got this far for that to happen. Im sure i messed up on some of the questions just no sure what i could have said or not. I want to appeal not only because i want a second chance, but because the second doctor will tell me were i messed up. Hopefully if i try elsewhere this does not happen again. I wont give up though thats for sure. It pretty much seems impossible to win an appeal but i have heard of some success stories so hopefully it works out for me. Either way ill keep you guys updated on what happens, perhaps this could help other people going through the same thing. I remember hearing my detectivr say "the department already likes you" and im sure they did because i got pretty far. Yet there was something there the doctor didnt like, and i want to know what it is, hopefully im border line where i can explain it or clarify if i messed up on a question. Either way thanks man i appreciate it. Oh one more thing , i did talk to some harbor police officers where i work and they all told me that some had to take it three times because they failed one or what not. It could be ( not enough life experience, maturity level, cannot cope with stress, and many other reasons as to why, maybe i answered the interview questions in a manner that he thought i was not ready for this job. I do remember this question , "what stresses you out"? I said bills sometimes stress me out, and my job gets stressful at times since i work at the busiest security check point in san diego airport. Maybe thats not what he wanted to hear. I will forsure say something else next time.

          Comment


          • #6
            You can't beat the test. You won't be told anything about your scoring unless you pay to privately take the test. What part of you failed and try somewhere else did you not understand? You could ace the testing and still not be hired because you wore a striped shirt to the oral board.

            Let it go.
            Now go home and get your shine box!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
              You can't beat the test. You won't be told anything about your scoring unless you pay to privately take the test. What part of you failed and try somewhere else did you not understand? You could ace the testing and still not be hired because you wore a striped shirt to the oral board.

              Let it go.

              Dont gotta be so negative about it, i understand i didnt pass, and its for a reason and i will pay out of pocket to know why i failed. Maybe then my next process will go smoothly since i know what not to do or say next time. There has been plenty of people that pass this test on the second try, so i appreciate youre input but i will appeal.

              Comment


              • #8
                Go ahead, be THAT guy. You STILL won't pass because it won't be the same data an agency is looking for. I really don't understand your demand that this one agency have to hire you.
                Now go home and get your shine box!

                Comment


                • #9
                  A lot of people don't pass the psych. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you. Certain agencies look for certain types of candidates. Some departments might look for a hard charging, take no nonsense, type-A personality where others might look for someone more analytical.

                  Don't let this deter you! Good Luck!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AGInvestigator View Post
                    A lot of people don't pass the psych. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you. Certain agencies look for certain types of candidates. Some departments might look for a hard charging, take no nonsense, type-A personality where others might look for someone more analytical.

                    Don't let this deter you! Good Luck!
                    Hey,

                    I agree with you, and thanks for that info. I definetly will not let it stop me. I hahe worked hard to stand out as an applicant and one little bump in the road should not stop anyone from pursuing their dreams.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pi, Esq. View Post
                      Most psych DQ's are based on the questionnaire(s) you had to fill out because they are designed in such a way to allow subtle, or even blatant, personally characteristics that are not desirable in law enforcement to be revealed.
                      ^ Exactly.

                      Crazy people don't know they are crazy. ...Which is why the brilliant minds of the PSY world have created testing procedures.

                      The MMPI is the most fun you can have with your clothes on and it is a shame that all agencies don't require it

                      I don't know what kind of PSY eval the OP underwent, or for who, but we've never had anyone come back after being dropped for PSY (across three different employers requiring PSY interviews and MMPI's, MBTI, etc). You can't game the game and/or expect to get feedback so that you can explain your answers or change them in the future.

                      Side note: Failing a PSY exam is not a little bump.

                      Good luck with future endeavors OP.
                      "Independent research, reading comprehension, & a firm grasp of reality saves lives."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by andres_garcia View Post
                        Hey,

                        I agree with you, and thanks for that info. I definetly will not let it stop me. I hahe worked hard to stand out as an applicant and one little bump in the road should not stop anyone from pursuing their dreams.
                        Andres -

                        You seem like someone who really wants a law enforcement job, and I get that, because I do, too. However, you don't seem to understand what is being said to you. Take it from me, you are asking all the wrong questions. I have not only studied these psych exams extensively, I've also developed questions for them. The reason these exams are used is because they are based on years of data, millions of responses, and are, generally, as scientific as you can get in this field.

                        You keep saying you want to know what you did wrong so you can fix it the next time around. This won't work. Even if you could "game" the questions, you'd still be exposed during the oral interview. But, to even get to the point of being able to game the system you'd have to not only be able to remember every single response you've given on all prior questions, but you'd need to be able to recognize when a new question is asking the same thing as a prior question, but in a different way. The sheer amount of data you'd need to be able to memorize, recognize, and apply is too great. And, as I said, even if you could do that, you'd have to continue the façade through the entire interview with the psychologist. The entire purpose of the psychologist is to validate the responses on your questionnaire, and they are tasked with doing so in the most intrusive means possible. The psychologists go into the interview assuming they are going to find something wrong. It's just not going to happen.

                        Having said all that, what you really should do is realize that you are being done a favor. These tests are purposely designed to weed out all those that are not well-suited for jobs in law enforcement. If you could find a job in law enforcement, you'd likely find yourself displeased with the job or, worse, in legal trouble.

                        I played baseball and hockey in college and am very athletic. But no matter how hard I try, I can't play basketball… I just don't have the skill set to figure basketball out. So, I could spend the rest of my life trying to be decent at basketball and it likely wouldn't happen. You can try to game the system to become the perfect candidate for a law enforcement job, but no matter how hard you try, it's just not going to happen.

                        Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you just have to deal with it and move on. Your situation reminds me of the scene in Little Miss Sunshine when the teenage boy realizes he is colorblind and that disqualifies him from his dream of becoming a military pilot. **** happens. There is nothing he could do about his situation, just like there really isn't anything you can do about yours.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by M8541 Reaper View Post
                          ^ Exactly.

                          Crazy people don't know they are crazy. ...Which is why the brilliant minds of the PSY world have created testing procedures.

                          The MMPI is the most fun you can have with your clothes on and it is a shame that all agencies don't require it

                          I don't know what kind of PSY eval the OP underwent, or for who, but we've never had anyone come back after being dropped for PSY (across three different employers requiring PSY interviews and MMPI's, MBTI, etc). You can't game the game and/or expect to get feedback so that you can explain your answers or change them in the future.

                          Side note: Failing a PSY exam is not a little bump.

                          Good luck with future endeavors OP.

                          I understand, i just know that many candidates have won the appeal process. Either that or they test again with a different agency and get hired on. Failing a psych does not mean you are crazy, it means the department which you tested for did not think you were suitable for their needs. Some departments look for different answers, which is why I will appeal to see where i went wrong , why i got DQ. Maybe it was as simple as not enough life experience, or maybe i was to agressive. Who knows, but either way i will keep trying.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pi, Esq. View Post
                            Andres -

                            You seem like someone who really wants a law enforcement job, and I get that, because I do, too. However, you don't seem to understand what is being said to you. Take it from me, you are asking all the wrong questions. I have not only studied these psych exams extensively, I've also developed questions for them. The reason these exams are used is because they are based on years of data, millions of responses, and are, generally, as scientific as you can get in this field.

                            You keep saying you want to know what you did wrong so you can fix it the next time around. This won't work. Even if you could "game" the questions, you'd still be exposed during the oral interview. But, to even get to the point of being able to game the system you'd have to not only be able to remember every single response you've given on all prior questions, but you'd need to be able to recognize when a new question is asking the same thing as a prior question, but in a different way. The sheer amount of data you'd need to be able to memorize, recognize, and apply is too great. And, as I said, even if you could do that, you'd have to continue the façade through the entire interview with the psychologist. The entire purpose of the psychologist is to validate the responses on your questionnaire, and they are tasked with doing so in the most intrusive means possible. The psychologists go into the interview assuming they are going to find something wrong. It's just not going to happen.

                            Having said all that, what you really should do is realize that you are being done a favor. These tests are purposely designed to weed out all those that are not well-suited for jobs in law enforcement. If you could find a job in law enforcement, you'd likely find yourself displeased with the job or, worse, in legal trouble.

                            I played baseball and hockey in college and am very athletic. But no matter how hard I try, I can't play basketball… I just don't have the skill set to figure basketball out. So, I could spend the rest of my life trying to be decent at basketball and it likely wouldn't happen. You can try to game the system to become the perfect candidate for a law enforcement job, but no matter how hard you try, it's just not going to happen.

                            Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you just have to deal with it and move on. Your situation reminds me of the scene in Little Miss Sunshine when the teenage boy realizes he is colorblind and that disqualifies him from his dream of becoming a military pilot. **** happens. There is nothing he could do about his situation, just like there really isn't anything you can do about yours.
                            Whats up brotha,

                            Yeah man, i agree with you. Its just im not ready to give up on my dream. I know of many cops that failed one psych, and 6 months down the road they passed one with another dep and got hired. I have kept my nose clean for so long so i could make it through the process, and i will continue to do so. I will try elsewhere but i will appeal because the doctor i spoke to told me he will tell me my results, you are right, i cannot change the way i am or think about this, i can only hope that another dep is looking for the type of person I am. Maybe i was DQd because of not enough life experience which i have heard before, who knows when i find out i will forsure let you guys know. I appreciate all the info, and help and advice you guys have given me. I do however have a plan B. I am in the U.S army and my mos is communications, i am close to graduating from college with a bachelors in IT security which is where the money is at, if my LE dream does not work for me; i have something to fall under to. Either way, thanks man and goodluck to you.

                            Andres

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not many win an appeal, unless a wrong can be proven.

                              Perhaps your inability to deal with this issue is an indicator of WHY you failed. You are arguing with people who are explaining the reasons you probably failed. You refuse to acknowledge it, and are determined to shove your way back into a process that found you wanting.

                              Again: MOVE ON.
                              Now go home and get your shine box!

                              Comment

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