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  • Originally posted by brownj21 View Post
    I don't see why you should wait nor am I aware of anything permitting you from re-applying.
    I know several people in our district applied at multiple districts and some even had interviews in multiple districts in a short period of time before being ultimately hired.
    The reason I ask is some agencies in AZ require you to wait 6-12 months if denied before re-applying.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by HMCN View Post
      Yep, it is a big difference, 1811s receive LEAP on top of their regular pay. All the reason for folks to research the district they are applying to, some districts only keep you in the developmental stage for two years.

      On another note, I knew an 1811 who wanted a USPO spot. The trade off? A happy spouse, attending soccer games and pageants.
      I am a newbie but what's an 1811?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cubs4life View Post
        I am a newbie but what's an 1811?
        1811-Criminal Investigator/Special Agent

        The formal answer: 1811 is OPM's job series for: Criminal Investigator, usually with working title Special Agent (I.e FBI agent, DEA Special Agent, Secret Service Specal Agent, etc.)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CJ511 View Post

          I don't care if handcuffs are issued, nor do I care about badges, and batons, and Tasers and so forth. Still doesn't qualify anyone as a "law enforcement" officer. They are just tools used for self-defense, not to protect the safety or life of the public, which is what "law enforcement" officers do every second that they are on duty.

          Never once did I consider myself a "law enforcement" officer.

          So EVERYONE, stop with this back and forth talk about LE vs. social work.
          I reluctantly throw my hat into this debate.

          I agree with most of what you say, and I too see the battle between "social work and law enforcement" as a battle of semantics and something that doesn't really hammer out what probation does. The debate between social work and law enforcement and probation is really just a way to explain to the layman what the heck it is we do. I absolutely agree that probation is it's own thing and has it's own extremely specific mission. I agree that the goal of probation is to reduce recidivism and bring about change at it's core.

          However.... I don't quite follow your logic. 18 U.S.C § 3583 establishes supervised release and 18 U.S.C. § 3563 establishes standard conditions of those sentenced to a period of supervision. This is federal law. 18 U.S.C. § 3603 establishes the duties of probation officers and instructs probation officers that the law is to essentially assist the individual in bringing about change, monitoring court conditions, etc. We are enforcing the federal laws established in 3583 and 3563. Although the enforcement is not traditional as in, "law break, investigate, arrest, bring to court" it can follow an extremely similar path of "violation, investigate, report to court". Are we enforcing laws each and every day? I say so. If we are following our duties within 3603 and applying it to the laws within the other two statutes, we are enforcing these federal laws. Even if that "enforcement" is simply motivating the individual to change and reduce recidivism.

          I believe the back and forth of "are you more law enforcement or social work" simply as a debate to suss out where a district or agency lies into how aggressive it is. It's a valid discussion because although our mission is very specific, it's application in the real world varies greatly from district to district and from county to state agencies. This discussion has value.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by holycrikey View Post
            I reluctantly throw my hat into this debate.

            I agree with most of what you say, and I too see the battle between "social work and law enforcement" as a battle of semantics and something that doesn't really hammer out what probation does. The debate between social work and law enforcement and probation is really just a way to explain to the layman what the heck it is we do. I absolutely agree that probation is it's own thing and has it's own extremely specific mission. I agree that the goal of probation is to reduce recidivism and bring about change at it's core.

            However.... I don't quite follow your logic. 18 U.S.C § 3583 establishes supervised release and 18 U.S.C. § 3563 establishes standard conditions of those sentenced to a period of supervision. This is federal law. 18 U.S.C. § 3603 establishes the duties of probation officers and instructs probation officers that the law is to essentially assist the individual in bringing about change, monitoring court conditions, etc. We are enforcing the federal laws established in 3583 and 3563. Although the enforcement is not traditional as in, "law break, investigate, arrest, bring to court" it can follow an extremely similar path of "violation, investigate, report to court". Are we enforcing laws each and every day? I say so. If we are following our duties within 3603 and applying it to the laws within the other two statutes, we are enforcing these federal laws. Even if that "enforcement" is simply motivating the individual to change and reduce recidivism.

            I believe the back and forth of "are you more law enforcement or social work" simply as a debate to suss out where a district or agency lies into how aggressive it is. It's a valid discussion because although our mission is very specific, it's application in the real world varies greatly from district to district and from county to state agencies. This discussion has value.
            Technically everyone is right to a certain degree. So we can all agree there are just huge areas of gray in what we do. It is a unique position with positives and negatives depending on how you look at it. Everyone in this job has a different idea of what we are. It is a great job if you know exactly what you are getting into going in. It is not for everyone. I will say this until I am blue in the face because I really do get sick and tired of people trying to find the more LE oriented districts....if you want to kick in doors and be a badass, then this is not the job for you.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Nola504 View Post
              Technically everyone is right to a certain degree. So we can all agree there are just huge areas of gray in what we do. It is a unique position with positives and negatives depending on how you look at it. Everyone in this job has a different idea of what we are. It is a great job if you know exactly what you are getting into going in. It is not for everyone. I will say this until I am blue in the face because I really do get sick and tired of people trying to find the more LE oriented districts....if you want to kick in doors and be a badass, then this is not the job for you.
              You hit the nail on the head by stating there are huge gray areas to this line of work. And, yes, this is a great field once you figure what it is you actually do.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by HMCN View Post
                Yep, it is a big difference, 1811s receive LEAP on top of their regular pay. All the reason for folks to research the district they are applying to, some districts only keep you in the developmental stage for two years.

                On another note, I knew an 1811 who wanted a USPO spot. The trade off? A happy spouse, attending soccer games and pageants.
                Ain't that the truth about the trade off. The 1811 gigs take a toll on family life once the glitz and glamour starts to fade. They are great jobs for single men and women, but hard on those with families. Hats off to those who manage to keep it up with the demands at work and home at the same time. I know of a deputy marshal who interviewed for US Probation. In his district, they had him on a rotation with court and fugitive apprehensions. Let just say when his turn came around for the fugitive work, his home life became very stressed.

                Comment


                • Any one in the south east know of future openings?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CJ511 View Post
                    And let me be clear on the pre-sentence investigations, they are not criminal investigations. They are background investigations on steroids. There's a lot of research and application of sentencing guidelines. That's the reason why those with law degrees are so highly sought these days, they are great at guideline application.
                    While I agree with you 99% of the way about PSI investigations, I would like to say one thing. In my time as a PSI writer, I have located additional child victims in several cases. Victims that the prosecutor and lead agent were not aware of.

                    Originally posted by HMCN View Post
                    Yep, it is a big difference, 1811s receive LEAP on top of their regular pay. All the reason for folks to research the district they are applying to, some districts only keep you in the developmental stage for two years.

                    On another note, I knew an 1811 who wanted a USPO spot. The trade off? A happy spouse, attending soccer games and pageants.
                    It's the opposite here. The special agents have TONS of freedom and we do not. In fact, we have had several USPOs make the opposite move (going from USPOs to 1811).


                    Originally posted by CJ511 View Post
                    Ain't that the truth about the trade off. The 1811 gigs take a toll on family life once the glitz and glamour starts to fade. They are great jobs for single men and women, but hard on those with families. Hats off to those who manage to keep it up with the demands at work and home at the same time. I know of a deputy marshal who interviewed for US Probation. In his district, they had him on a rotation with court and fugitive apprehensions. Let just say when his turn came around for the fugitive work, his home life became very stressed.

                    See my response above.
                    www.ShankAZombie.com

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brownj21 View Post
                      While I agree with you 99% of the way about PSI investigations, I would like to say one thing. In my time as a PSI writer, I have located additional child victims in several cases. Victims that the prosecutor and lead agent were not aware of.



                      It's the opposite here. The special agents have TONS of freedom and we do not. In fact, we have had several USPOs make the opposite move (going from USPOs to 1811).





                      See my response above.
                      Just out of curiosity what do you mean by "tons of freedom". I felt as though this job had a lot of freedom in terms of time. We are free to flex our schedules, work from home, work whatever field hours we like, and come and go as we need. This doesn't even include comp time, we are able to take it anytime we need without supervisor approval as long as we have it. I think for a family this is hands down the best federal LE organization. I have not missed an event, holiday, or birthday with my kids since taking this job. An extra 30,000 grand can't replace that.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LadyKiller View Post
                        Just out of curiosity what do you mean by "tons of freedom". I felt as though this job had a lot of freedom in terms of time. We are free to flex our schedules, work from home, work whatever field hours we like, and come and go as we need. This doesn't even include comp time, we are able to take it anytime we need without supervisor approval as long as we have it. I think for a family this is hands down the best federal LE organization. I have not missed an event, holiday, or birthday with my kids since taking this job. An extra 30,000 grand can't replace that.
                        My district has NONE of what you just named. As you know every district has their own policies and such.
                        We have no
                        1) comp time
                        2) flex time
                        3) tele-work

                        In my district, if you work a 70 hour week (which I have done), congratulations, you just donated 30 hours of your own time. If you have court 2 or 3 hours away and it requires a 12 or 13 hour day to drive to court, handle your business and drive back...well, so sorry, that's the job. It may not even get mentioned in your evaluation.

                        PM me for more details if you need them. It sounds bad, but it is actually much much worse than I just named above.

                        As opposed to that, I have worked with (in a previous job) and continue to have contact with agents from the Secret Service, FBI, ATF, DEA, and so on and they tell me AND I have personally seen them come and go at will for the same things you named. Many of them have scoffed at the "mandatory" 50 hours of work per week that is supposed to be required for them to earn their LEAP pay.
                        Last edited by brownj21; 09-08-2016, 06:42 AM.
                        www.ShankAZombie.com

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by brownj21 View Post
                          My district has NONE of what you just named. As you know every district has their own policies and such.
                          We have no
                          1) comp time
                          2) flex time
                          3) tele-work
                          A reminder to everyone viewing this thread to take each post with a grain of salt. As always, you'll find districts do things very differently.

                          I know you and I have chatted via PM before. I don't think I ever asked, but why not transfer? Your district sounds like a bottom 3 district. The way you describe it, your district sounds like the Cleveland Browns of US Probation. I have traveled extensively with this job and have met officers from all over the country, including as far as Hawaii, Guam, Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico. Never had a review as bad as yours. I say you do whatever you can to get out and enjoy a better district. Sometimes hopping even one district over changes the entire job.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by holycrikey View Post
                            A reminder to everyone viewing this thread to take each post with a grain of salt. As always, you'll find districts do things very differently.

                            I know you and I have chatted via PM before. I don't think I ever asked, but why not transfer? Your district sounds like a bottom 3 district. The way you describe it, your district sounds like the Cleveland Browns of US Probation. I have traveled extensively with this job and have met officers from all over the country, including as far as Hawaii, Guam, Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico. Never had a review as bad as yours. I say you do whatever you can to get out and enjoy a better district. Sometimes hopping even one district over changes the entire job.
                            I get asked that a lot, understandably so. First I would say that we have a 3 year agreement to stay here. That is required as a part of the job. With that said, I have surpassed those 3 years, but at least starting out, I could not transfer because of that. And yes, it is strictly enforced.

                            Since I am beyond those 3 years now, I do have a lot of things that tie me to this location. One is that all of my family is here and they assist with picking up and keeping my children (like when I am on these 12 hour days and such LOL). That is probably reason #1. My dad's health has declined a lot in the last couple of years as well. I would hate to be far away if something were to happen.

                            Also, my wife has a good job that she loves and it would be difficult (but not impossible) to replicate her pay and happiness.

                            But yes, it is very frustrating to have the knowledge of how things are so very different (and better) just a few hours in any direction. And you are correct, in my time with this agency I have met officers from all over the country. And in talking with them it seems that they are happy and satisfied...and most of that happiness is tied to the benefits discussed that my district does not offer (comp time, telework, etc).
                            Last edited by brownj21; 09-08-2016, 10:01 AM.
                            www.ShankAZombie.com

                            Comment


                            • I was a USPO and left within the last year for a 1811 gig. I have been surprised so far that I worked more nights in probation but it was scheduled nights where I came in at noon and worked until 9 or 10. Now just things can come up that turn into a 12 or 13 hour day. Like brownj21 said, in my district if you worked more than 40, thanks for the donation. Think I only comped 1 day in 7 years. Maybe flex here and there an hour or so but it was not common. It was tough to only work 40 and get your work done with new initiatives and rising caseloads numbers. My leap hours now are just being available according to my sup. It's much easier to control location with probation. Every time we would meet other officers at fletc, we would talk about how things worked in their districts. Each district is almost like a separate agency. Some had to use their own pov for field work, some hardly ever went to court on violations as, some had to go multiple times to court to deal with a single violation. In my own district my complaint was that each division had very different rules depending on who the judges were that made it seem like 3 separate districts. The pay was a big reason myself and a few others have left for 1811 gigs. I was still in the developmental phase even though I had been a USPO for over 5 years and I was a poa for a few years before that. 1811 job matched my base pay so essentially got a raise for LEAP. Step increases that changed after 2009 and freezing step increases in 2013 killed a lot of the moral. People retired because it wasn't worth it getting killed in stress for little increase each year. And new officers who are less than 5 years in are leaving for 1811 gigs because they had to get masters to get the USPO job but pay increases barely enough to keep up. I have heard some chiefs bringing in officers at a higher rate to offset this or cash awards. Just depends on the district and their chief.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dsb05c View Post
                                I was a USPO and left within the last year for a 1811 gig. I have been surprised so far that I worked more nights in probation but it was scheduled nights where I came in at noon and worked until 9 or 10. Now just things can come up that turn into a 12 or 13 hour day. Like brownj21 said, in my district if you worked more than 40, thanks for the donation. Think I only comped 1 day in 7 years. Maybe flex here and there an hour or so but it was not common. It was tough to only work 40 and get your work done with new initiatives and rising caseloads numbers. My leap hours now are just being available according to my sup. It's much easier to control location with probation. Every time we would meet other officers at fletc, we would talk about how things worked in their districts. Each district is almost like a separate agency. Some had to use their own pov for field work, some hardly ever went to court on violations as, some had to go multiple times to court to deal with a single violation. In my own district my complaint was that each division had very different rules depending on who the judges were that made it seem like 3 separate districts. The pay was a big reason myself and a few others have left for 1811 gigs. I was still in the developmental phase even though I had been a USPO for over 5 years and I was a poa for a few years before that. 1811 job matched my base pay so essentially got a raise for LEAP. Step increases that changed after 2009 and freezing step increases in 2013 killed a lot of the moral. People retired because it wasn't worth it getting killed in stress for little increase each year. And new officers who are less than 5 years in are leaving for 1811 gigs because they had to get masters to get the USPO job but pay increases barely enough to keep up. I have heard some chiefs bringing in officers at a higher rate to offset this or cash awards. Just depends on the district and their chief.
                                Yes, our pay progression is incredibly slow also. If you don't get exceeds on evals, you are looking at 6 years in developmental range.
                                Last edited by brownj21; 09-09-2016, 10:23 AM.
                                www.ShankAZombie.com

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