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I can be fired for not being a veteran

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  • I can be fired for not being a veteran

    For the last year I have been trying to regain a full time permanent federal law enforcement position. My background is the following: I have a Master's degree, I was a GS-09 National Park Service LE Ranger for two years, I graduated from a 16 week FLETC basic academy, and I'm a schedule A person with disability. While going through field training my dad passed away. So i made the decision to resign to take care of my mom. For 10 months I applied for over 75 federal LE positions. Like most of you know the Veterans preference was fully enforced. Lots of agencies like USMS, DEA,ATF,FBI,and FPS had veterans only hiring. I tried to join the military last year but was repeatedly denied all because I admitted that i went to grief counseling after my dad's death. I was deemed a suicide risk. I had a conversation with a US Marshal's HR recruiter yesterday. And what she told me was disturbing. She told me that because of the Presidents Executive Order all federal agencies are suppose to only hire Veterans. She told me that if an agency hires me a non veteran and a veteran files a lawsuit than that agency would have to fire me after being hired. I have no problems when qualified veterans are hired. As long as they try to hire us non veterans also. I have a term USAF civilian police officer position. My position maybe cancelled by the end of the year. I'm just needing help.

  • #2
    Why not open up your restrictions to include local and state law enforcement agencies?

    State and local agencies generally officer much more diverse opportunities. However, the pay is usally lower, but not in all cases. Often times, local and state agencies offer much better benefits then Federal agencies.

    Also, DEA and FBI did not have veteran's only hiring. Customs and the Border Patrol are also hiring non-veterans.
    Last edited by o2force; 07-31-2013, 01:03 PM.

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    • #3
      There is nothing you can do except either go state/local or wait it out at the fed level. At the fed level, completely forget about the USMS for a long long time, military or not. We are frozen and our situation won't improve...measured in years. As for the other agencies, the vet preference order was in full force and effect last I knew. The other alternative is to be smart about what you're doing and find a way to join the military--by the time you are out things should (hopefully) have gotten better. Read into what I just said. Good luck.....

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      • #4
        I smell a troll.

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        • #5
          Overall it is very hard to get a federal LE job now if you are not a vet with pts. With some agencies like the USMS it is impossible. I've been working as a fed leo now for over seven years and if I had to do it all over again I would have applied to local departments. Working for the feds gets worse every year. Find a local department with a good tax base that cares about its employees and enforcement. If you have to move to find one then do so. Good luck to you.

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          • #6
            Vet or not, getting hired in any fed job over the past year would have been a miracle. We are in a draw-down cycle, as was mentioned you may be waiting a long time to go fed.

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            • #7
              I'm in the process now for an Armed Security Officer position with the Dept. of the Army at Ft Belvoir. Depends if my lack of clearance lets me, that is
              Former Police Officer (Injured LOD)
              USAF VETERAN 2004-2012
              "The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."-LTC Grossman
              Emergency Services Dispatcher, APG MD

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              • #8
                I'm glad they're only hiring Veterans. It sucks for you, but I'm glad because it help's my brothers out, so sorry about your luck.

                What you can do, is look into the state/local level. With the masters and 2 years in LE, you'll probably be pretty competitive. Not sure about the grief stuff though...

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                • #9
                  Does this also hold true for schedule B processes like the ATF held?

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                  • #10
                    Border Patrol Agent, and Customs and Border Protection Officer are both open on usajobs right now. Believe it or not, they hire a lot of non-vets for these jobs because they need so many people for these positions. There are not enough vets to fill all the positions they want to fill. Believe me, I am a non-vet and I am also a Border Patrol Agent.
                    Natural selection leaves the survivors stronger and better! Humans have escaped this winnowing for far too long!

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                    • #11
                      First, your contract coming to an end is not the same as being fired for not being a veteran. Second, times are tough and finding employment is very competitive at the moment, with no end in sight. Third, you were misinformed concerning the government only hiring veterans. Fourth, you may have to put some time, measured in years, between your grief counseling and gainful employment in the field of law enforcement. Fifth, should have been first, sorry for your loss. Best of luck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by k9james View Post
                        For the last year I have been trying to regain a full time permanent federal law enforcement position. My background is the following: I have a Master's degree, I was a GS-09 National Park Service LE Ranger for two years, I graduated from a 16 week FLETC basic academy, and I'm a schedule A person with disability. While going through field training my dad passed away. So i made the decision to resign to take care of my mom. For 10 months I applied for over 75 federal LE positions. Like most of you know the Veterans preference was fully enforced. Lots of agencies like USMS, DEA,ATF,FBI,and FPS had veterans only hiring. I tried to join the military last year but was repeatedly denied all because I admitted that i went to grief counseling after my dad's death. I was deemed a suicide risk. I had a conversation with a US Marshal's HR recruiter yesterday. And what she told me was disturbing. She told me that because of the Presidents Executive Order all federal agencies are suppose to only hire Veterans. She told me that if an agency hires me a non veteran and a veteran files a lawsuit than that agency would have to fire me after being hired. I have no problems when qualified veterans are hired. As long as they try to hire us non veterans also. I have a term USAF civilian police officer position. My position maybe cancelled by the end of the year. I'm just needing help.
                        Short answer: NO


                        While certain positions in the Fed are typically reserved primarily for Veterans (GS-0085’s) and there is a push to hire Veterans, the EO does not preclude hiring of non-veterans. Granted, when applying for any federal position you will be ranked against other candidates- lacking veterans preference points will put you at somewhat of disadvantage but this does not preclude you from getting a job. The same could be said when competing against another non-veteran who has tenure with the Fed- they will score higher than you.

                        See: Executive Order 13518 for the Employment of Veterans in the Federal Government: 1) Leadership Commitment; 2) Skills Development and Employment; 3) Marketing Veterans’ Employment; and 4) an Information Gateway. Nothing in this or subsequent guidance precludes or even say that non-veterans will be considered- fact of the matter I know countless non-Vets who have landed federal jobs; both LE and non-LE. It’s just that you will be at a distinct disadvantage not having veterans status.
                        Yes, a qualified Veteran could file against an agency and if they demonstrate that their status was overlooked they could be forced to hire that person, and it is possible (however miniscule) that you could be let go to make room for them- this is so slim it’s not worth discussing.

                        As for joining the military- do so to serve first and foremost. DO NOT enlist to garner veteran’s preference, college benefits or potential leverage in later job searches.

                        As for being denied entry to the military for having received grief counseling- I have doubts on that one. You are not denied for “being a suicide risk” but because you have or could potentially suffer from a specific set of medical or mental health conditions that are not compatible with military service. The MEPS screening and review process will look at mental health counseling and treatment, but having received grief counseling is in itself NOT a bar to enlistment.
                        Originally posted by SSD
                        It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
                        Originally posted by Iowa #1603
                        And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

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                        • #13
                          I will have to definitely agree... Whether your a Vet or non-vet its going to be hard to get a job at ANY federal level nowadays. This even includes state/local police departments. You just gotta keep on keeping on brother.
                          Unless your Resume says....
                          Bachelors and masters in Criminal justice-- Magnum Cum Laude
                          Skills with all weapons including nunchucks
                          85 Word Per Minute Typing speed
                          Veteran for all the following wars--- Iraqi War, Gulf War, World War 2, Spanish-American War, and Civil War (North side... if South- you need not apply)
                          References: Jack Bauer, Charles Bronson, Matrix from Commando, and Hudson from Aliens

                          THEN you MIGHT have a chance

                          In the end.... its a tough game for everyone. Good Luck Brother

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sgt jon View Post
                            Short answer: NO


                            While certain positions in the Fed are typically reserved primarily for Veterans (GS-0085’s) and there is a push to hire Veterans, the EO does not preclude hiring of non-veterans. Granted, when applying for any federal position you will be ranked against other candidates- lacking veterans preference points will put you at somewhat of disadvantage but this does not preclude you from getting a job. The same could be said when competing against another non-veteran who has tenure with the Fed- they will score higher than you.

                            See: Executive Order 13518 for the Employment of Veterans in the Federal Government: 1) Leadership Commitment; 2) Skills Development and Employment; 3) Marketing Veterans’ Employment; and 4) an Information Gateway. Nothing in this or subsequent guidance precludes or even say that non-veterans will be considered- fact of the matter I know countless non-Vets who have landed federal jobs; both LE and non-LE. It’s just that you will be at a distinct disadvantage not having veterans status.
                            Yes, a qualified Veteran could file against an agency and if they demonstrate that their status was overlooked they could be forced to hire that person, and it is possible (however miniscule) that you could be let go to make room for them- this is so slim it’s not worth discussing.

                            As for joining the military- do so to serve first and foremost. DO NOT enlist to garner veteran’s preference, college benefits or potential leverage in later job searches.

                            As for being denied entry to the military for having received grief counseling- I have doubts on that one. You are not denied for “being a suicide risk” but because you have or could potentially suffer from a specific set of medical or mental health conditions that are not compatible with military service. The MEPS screening and review process will look at mental health counseling and treatment, but having received grief counseling is in itself NOT a bar to enlistment.
                            I agree with Sgt_jon, the military will not deny you based solely on grief counseling; they look at what the counselor or psych said about you in their evaluation. I recommend going back to the counselor and ask them why the military might have disqualified you; perhaps they can re-write the diagnosis or re-evaluate you for a better outcome. For instance, if you were in the middle of your grief, they might have diagnosed you as borderline depressed, now that you have dealt with your grief, they could recommend that you have fully recovered.

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