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  • 1811 Experience Question

    I know how everyone hates these crystal ball type questions, but I have a question that I'm actually really curious as to the answer on - I also get the feeling it might depend upon the agency.

    Anyway, I'd appreciate any comments:

    2 scenarios, let's assume no vet pref for either candidate. Both people are going for the same 1811 position. Who would be more competitive?

    Situation 1:
    Person A: Law degree, no substantial experience aside from externships with a DA or USA's office during law school
    Person B: BA degree (with superior academic achievement) and three years on patrol with a PD (not an investigative assignment or task force)

    Situation 2:
    Person A: add 2 years of trying cases with a DA's office
    Person B: add 2 years of work as a detective/on a specialized unit



    I know it's an annoying question, but I'd appreciate any insight.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Which one knows the SAC's kid or golfs with his brother?

    Comment


    • #3
      All up to the selecting official. A lot depends on the candidate and so many various factors. I've seen some impressed with the law degree and some could care less.
      ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

      Comment


      • #4
        It so much more depends on the agency and then the field office to which they are hired into.

        Are we talking about USSS or an IG shop? Huge difference in that the USSS will take folks with minimal LE experience when OIGs tend to want fraud or cyber experience. While this is a broad generalization, it should help frame the landscape a bit.

        I will also qualify that without Veterans status, you will be facing an uphill battle for years to come. This has borne out to be the case time and time again in recent announcements.
        Originally posted by SSD
        It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
        Originally posted by Iowa #1603
        And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

        Comment


        • #5
          There is no such thing as politics in the fed govt, ....yes and I have a bridge to sell you over the east river, real cheap......
          Abraham Lincoln:Nowhere in the world is presented a government of so much liberty and equality. To the humblest and poorest amongst us are held out the highest privileges and positions. The present moment finds me at the White House, yet there is as good a chance for your children as there was for my father's.
          --August 31, 1864 Speech to 148th Ohio Regiment

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by madchiken View Post
            Which one knows the SAC's kid or golfs with his brother?
            lol....too funny chicken. @ joemama1 - Your question is a valid one and many applicants spend a long time trying to figure out the answer. Although, questions like yours don't make it pass 2-3 pages of post I will indulge you for just a moment. The age old debate of the Spoils system of hiring (aka who you know) or Merit based hiring (aka what you know) is as American as Apple Pie. Here's the real answer. Knowing the person in charge of hiring has never hurt anyone. Not knowing your interviewer doesn't disqualify you either, however it does cause you to have to make a really good first impression. However, when dealing with the Federal Gov't all these principles can be thrown out the window at any time. By no means will a law degree make you a "shoe-in" for any 1811-job, however it clearly won't hurt you.

            Law Degree: FBI, NCIS, AFOSI, DSS,IRS, OIG's.

            Patrol Experience w/ BA: ATF, USMS, BPA, FAM etc....
            Last edited by TopGun87; 04-02-2013, 04:38 PM.
            The only easy day was yesterday. - BUDS Instructor

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            • #7
              Without vet preference you are screwed with 95% of all 1811 jobs. If you really want to get an 1811 job go college and get a BS in something that matters. Engineering, computer science, accounting etc. Then go into the military as an officer for 4 years. You will come out with a degree that matters in the job market and a good chance of getting hired as an 1811 in 2/4 years. Without the vet pref you should not waste your time with it. A good local department with a strong tax base will have better retirement and much better work than the feds. Don't waste your time with law school if you don't want to be a lawyer. Most law schools don't offer a good return on your investment.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SHU View Post
                Without vet preference you are screwed with 95% of all 1811 jobs. If you really want to get an 1811 job go college and get a BS in something that matters. Engineering, computer science, accounting etc. Then go into the military as an officer for 4 years. You will come out with a degree that matters in the job market and a good chance of getting hired as an 1811 in 2/4 years. Without the vet pref you should not waste your time with it. A good local department with a strong tax base will have better retirement and much better work than the feds. Don't waste your time with law school if you don't want to be a lawyer. Most law schools don't offer a good return on your investment.

                lol SHU....I couldn't have said it better my self.... . Time for a glass of scotch. Later gents.....
                The only easy day was yesterday. - BUDS Instructor

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TopGun87 View Post
                  Law Degree: FBI, NCIS, AFOSI, DSS,IRS, OIG's.

                  Patrol Experience w/ BA: ATF, USMS, BPA, FAM etc....
                  I would that this is true but really depends. I had BA and Patrol experience and NO white collar and went to OIG. In my class, which was mainly an all OIG class (throw in some traditional 3 letter agencies) at least 70% of came from uniformed backgrounds with Patrol experience/detective experience. Several of my buddies left FED NRLE with no white collar and jumped to OIGs, so it takes all kinds. I have to admit having a hook has a LOT of pull in NRLE and OIG.
                  ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In my class of 48 at CITP, there were 2 with a law degrees, one supposedly passed the bar but did not practice.

                    As stated by others, knowing what the agency wants and tailoring your resume to it is the best course of action. I wouldn't bother with a law degree unless you want to be a lawyer.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OIG1811 View Post
                      I would that this is true but really depends. I had BA and Patrol experience and NO white collar and went to OIG. In my class, which was mainly an all OIG class (throw in some traditional 3 letter agencies) at least 70% of came from uniformed backgrounds with Patrol experience/detective experience. Several of my buddies left FED NRLE with no white collar and jumped to OIGs, so it takes all kinds. I have to admit having a hook has a LOT of pull in NRLE and OIG.
                      Now go ahead and tell them WHEN you were hired. That is what makes all the difference.

                      I am sick to death of guys saying how they were hired 5+ years ago, before the recession and 2 wars created a ton of people trying to become 1811s. Not to mention the budget situation in the feds saw huge increases in spending, very much unlike today.
                      Natural selection leaves the survivors stronger and better! Humans have escaped this winnowing for far too long!

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                      • #12
                        Although I can't really speak to what would give you the best shot at being an 1811, I can say that city policing is a blast. I'd definitely recommend going that route, the tactical/interview experience you will gain is invaluable, and that's where all the fun happens!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In both situations, the time lines re experience are off. While a year of experience can be acknowledged, the timeline measuring experience is typically set at 3, sometimes 5 years. Furthermore, experience is categorized as either general or specialized. Specialized is the more valuable of the two.

                          Situation one is a wash, with the advanced degree and no experience counting for the same as a bachelor's degree with 3-5 years of general experience.

                          Situation two, adjusted for the appropriate timelines, goes to the prosecutor. A prosecutor with 3-5 years of specialized experience is a more viable candidate than a law enforcement officer with 6-10 years of general experience. In some instances a detective's experience may be categorized as specialized. That may tip the scales back to even, however realistically few detective's will be able to justify enough specialized experience to overcome the prosecutor's. Those that can will typically have significantly more time on, think the 10-15 year range with 3-5 years assignment as a regular member of a federal task force.

                          At which point in time you begin to factor in that fact that for every prosecutor that seeks employment as an 1811 there are probably thousands of detectives. Tie goes to the prosecutor. Unless that detective has made a federal case or two and is being actively recruited by the right people representing the federal agency. Then tie goes to the detective.
                          Last edited by Erik; 04-20-2013, 04:30 PM.

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