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What counts more for an 1811 job: Military experience or law enforcement?

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  • #46
    Well that's disappointing, looks like I did all that hard work for nothing should have been an admin clerk and just got school done while I was in, oh well let this be a lesson to the rest of you!!!!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by USMCPOG View Post
      If you get annoyed that easy, then why are you on an internet forum, where people will obviously have different opinions/experiences then you? You're the only one who is getting mad, name calling, and taking this too far here. I haven't trashed you once. Everyone else has kept it civil.




      I agree, but what I mean is the big picture. Most aren't going to go straight from the military to a 1811 job. But how are some jobs not better springboards to the next level then others, especially entry level positions? With a bulk fuel job, you are going to have a much harder time explaing how your job prepares you for this one on a resume, getting an interview, and then entry level position related to LE (Not even talking about 1811 in this case) then with jobs like SF/Intel/MP/IT, etc. How are you really going to explain on a resume how your bulk fuel job is preparing you for a LE based job?

      You can get almost any job anywhere with any background in the civilian world and in the feds to some degree, I'm sure we all concur. But I'm sure we all agree that some degrees/work experience are easier to explain on a resume, get you an interview, and then up your chances of being hired for certain positions then others and then working your way up. And "upping your chances" is really all that I'm saying for someone going straight into the military and trying to decide what job they want to do.




      And you're saying I'm the one spewing at the mouth? BTW, I know several people who are MPs and went straight to the Feds, so discounting that job is not fair. But I guess if someone doesn't post it on the internet, it must not be true? I'll leave it at that though because you're taking my small initial comments way to far.
      While Bearcat can get very excitable, on this subject he is correct; you can add me to the list of folks that believe your understanding of the hiring process is incorrect. You are putting way to much emphasis on what someone has done in the military. The agencies do not care what you did in the military. You acknowledge that MP's don't do much in terms of law enforcement and do a lot of combat support. You then state that doesn't matter because it looks good on paper and gives you something to talk about. Do you really believe the folks reading that paper and that your listening to you talk don't know the truth of what that MP's experience really was??

      I can tell you as someone who has sat on hiring boards that military experience is a plus it doesn't matter very much what the MOS is for. I can also tell you something that you don't want to hear at all. In some departments that MP experience is seen as a negative. That is because the rules between military law enforcement and civilian law enforcement can be very very different and it can be very hard to unlearn what civilian law enforcement sees as bad habits.

      FB

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Firebug View Post
        While Bearcat can get very excitable
        Not excitable.... just very direct and don't beat around the bush.....especially when people spew off....and haven't a clue.....

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        • #49
          I don't really care much for this back and forth, but I would like to point out that from a stastical standpoint your "sample" only includes 10 respondents. That is less than 1/4 of the total population (I won't even take into consideration that there are also CID and MPs listed). This tells me that there could still be an overwhelming majority who are from the MP MOSs.

          Just a thought.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by saone View Post
            I don't really care much for this back and forth, but I would like to point out that from a stastical standpoint your "sample" only includes 10 respondents. That is less than 1/4 of the total population (I won't even take into consideration that there are also CID and MPs listed). This tells me that there could still be an overwhelming majority who are from the MP MOSs.

            Just a thought.
            It is important not to confuse simple correlation with causation. Yes most veterans had some type of LE oriented job in the data provided but there are other reasons for this besides the agencies preferring military LE veterans. Really, the most common reasoning is probably that people who preformed LE work in the military are simply more likely to pursue a LE oriented career once they leave the military. This isn't always true of course but you don't tend to see a lot of medics, air traffic controllers or flight line mechanics suddenly deciding that they want to be LE. These careers usually transition fairly well to a similar civilian side job, but some desire a more "military style" job atmosphere or simply do have a change of heart, hence why not only MP's apply and are chosen.
            In the end though it doesn't matter what you did in the military because other factors will more then likely out weigh it. You could be a 10 year MP but that 10 point veteran will be before you and if you aren't bringing a degree or other relevant and measurable benefits to the table, then I guarantee almost 100% you will be passed over for the other people who do.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by saone View Post
              your "sample" only includes 10 respondents.
              The "sample" came from 10 of the next 48 persons to attend FLETC on the US Marshals dime. The poster clearly stated that Feds only hire from MPs/Special Forces/Intel. You can clearly see that is not the case. All the Feds are looking for in 9/10 cases is a clean 214. Same with State and Local PDs. No one gives a **** if you were some Special Forces/Recon Ranger with 500 kills and 50 combat jumps..... They are looking for folks with a clean record, a good discharge, good credit, and to be physically fit.....Nothing more/nothing less.....

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Firebug View Post
                While Bearcat can get very excitable, on this subject he is correct; you can add me to the list of folks that believe your understanding of the hiring process is incorrect. You are putting way to much emphasis on what someone has done in the military. The agencies do not care what you did in the military. You acknowledge that MP's don't do much in terms of law enforcement and do a lot of combat support. You then state that doesn't matter because it looks good on paper and gives you something to talk about. Do you really believe the folks reading that paper and that your listening to you talk don't know the truth of what that MP's experience really was??

                I can tell you as someone who has sat on hiring boards that military experience is a plus it doesn't matter very much what the MOS is for. I can also tell you something that you don't want to hear at all. In some departments that MP experience is seen as a negative. That is because the rules between military law enforcement and civilian law enforcement can be very very different and it can be very hard to unlearn what civilian law enforcement sees as bad habits.

                FB
                Then what would you suggest someone just entering the military (the original poster) to do then? I think its wrong to tell someone just going in that "any job will do" because it sets them up for failure when they eventually get out and have no marketable skills whatsoever. Most guys will only do 1 tour. So its similar to a 4 year college degree in some respects. "Technically", you can major in anything and get a job anywhere, but as we both know, some degrees naturally open more opportunities for you than others. There are guys out there with art degrees right now who are top programmers for companies. But would you not agree that the guy who majors in computer science has more options directly after graduation? Both may end up at the same point, but one is going to have an infinitely easier time getting there in the end. This is not even considering connections or other credentials which the art guy may or may not have.

                I'm basically saying the same thing with the military. Sure, there are people who leave the military as cooks and become 1811s. And sure, an intel job may not get you a sworn position straight out. But again, would you not agree that the intel guy is going to have more options for "entry level" positions straight out of the military which could eventually build him towards a sworn position in the future? And even if decides not to or can't pursue a LEO job, the intel guy is going to have a lot more opportunities to do ANYTHING related to his field then if he were to come out as a cook and have to obtain some other credentials first. Again, its like graduating with an art degree and then deciding you love computers and want to do that for a living. The art guy can get that job in the end, but he's either going to have to go back to school or find a backdoor in then the computer science guy who only has to put in a few years at his company. That's all I'm getting at.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by USMCPOG View Post
                  Then what would you suggest someone just entering the military (the original poster) to do then? I think its wrong to tell someone just going in that "any job will do" because it sets them up for failure when they eventually get out and have no marketable skills whatsoever. Most guys will only do 1 tour. So its similar to a 4 year college degree in some respects. "Technically", you can major in anything and get a job anywhere, but as we both know, some degrees naturally open more opportunities for you than others. There are guys out there with art degrees right now who are top programmers for companies. But would you not agree that the guy who majors in computer science has more options directly after graduation? Both may end up at the same point, but one is going to have an infinitely easier time getting there in the end. This is not even considering connections or other credentials which the art guy may or may not have.

                  I'm basically saying the same thing with the military. Sure, there are people who leave the military as cooks and become 1811s. And sure, an intel job may not get you a sworn position straight out. But again, would you not agree that the intel guy is going to have more options for "entry level" positions straight out of the military which could eventually build him towards a sworn position in the future? And even if decides not to or can't pursue a LEO job, the intel guy is going to have a lot more opportunities to do ANYTHING related to his field then if he were to come out as a cook and have to obtain some other credentials first. Again, its like graduating with an art degree and then deciding you love computers and want to do that for a living. The art guy can get that job in the end, but he's either going to have to go back to school or find a backdoor in then the computer science guy who only has to put in a few years at his company. That's all I'm getting at.
                  The original poster was talking about 1811 jobs specifically. You sound like you're talking about being marketable overall, beyond LEO. As bearcat has said, it doesn't matter what your MOS is in the military when you are pursuing a career as an 1811.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cthockey View Post
                    The original poster was talking about 1811 jobs specifically. You sound like you're talking about being marketable overall, beyond LEO. As bearcat has said, it doesn't matter what your MOS is in the military when you are pursuing a career as an 1811.
                    I'm talking about big picture too because that matters also. The original poster keeps asking what he should do when he enters the military (for the long run and LEO). Firebug is right, it technically doesn't really matter what you do in the military for an 1811 job, but many vets need to take other jobs or get degrees to set themselves apart from the thousands of other vets applying. The job you choose in the military has a hand in that. If being just a 4 year vet was enough, everyone would have a job.

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                    • #55
                      As stated, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR MOS/JOB IN THE MILITARY IS WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING PICKED UP BY THE FEDS (or local for that matter)! One can drive a freaking General Officer around all day....as long as they get out with a good 214, that's all that is needed.

                      That said....what you do after the Military is the most important thing. Get a degree/get a LEO job locally/do both, get a decent job that shows you are mature, responsible can lead folks, can manage a budget, etc..... That will set you apart from just having military experience......

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
                        As stated, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR MOS/JOB IN THE MILITARY IS WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING PICKED UP BY THE FEDS
                        That being said, to original Poster:

                        Get a job that will entitle you to a lot of down time/ time in rear. This will allow you to attend school and since T.A was reinstated it will be free, No infantry no special ops. Something easy with lots of downtime. Get your degree, get out and apply so your not like me, in your 30's barely graduated college, 9 years in and in the same boat as a cook that did 4 years and has a degree in his 20's.

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                        • #57
                          My advice to every young person is the same for a potential MOS as it is for a degree: do what you enjoy.

                          Whatever it is, you'll naturally be better at it because you'll enjoy doing it - be it studying music or philosophy of taking an MOS in meteorology. And in my experience, it's far better to be able to say you had a great performance record or a high GPA i something that might not pertain to law enforcement at all ...than it is to have be mediocre in something LE-oriented. Again, that's for a first-term enlistee or a 4-year degree (where no one expects you to be a subject matter expert, anyway).

                          Personally, my degree is in History and German. I liked the subjects and did very well, and I know for a fact that it helped me get my first job. I've known many 1811's with liberal arts and other oddball degrees. The number I've known who had CJ degrees were minimal - not because it's a "bad" degree choice, but because for fed hiring, it just doesn't matter that much.

                          For aspiring 1811's from a degree standpoint - and other than studying what you like - make sure your degree will give you the ability to analyze facts/data and organize it into a coherent report (because that's 90% of what we do). Purge yourself of the "text typing" that a lot of young people do these days. That and a respectable GPA and you'll be fine.

                          From the MOS standpoint - I've never seen it matter, so keep our nose clean and get your DD-214 and the Honorable Discharge. Most agencies really only want to see if you can handle training and/or regimentation, that you can commit to something and finish it, and that you have a solid grasp of the concepts of integrity and doing the right thing, and that you're in decent shape. Otherwise, they'll teach you what they want you to know as far as the laws you'll enforce and the equipment you'll use.
                          "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

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                          • #58
                            When I interned with the USSS in college back in 2010, I was 27. No military or police experience. One of the agents there was my age. MY AGE. He was a state trooper for 3 years in VA and has a degree. That's it. No military experience. Here is a special agent at 27, the same age as me, yet I have nothing under my belt. Also, another agent was a helicopter pilot in the military.

                            I'm going to be 31 in June. Right now I just have a Poli Sci degree, superior academic achievement (which seems useless), and an internship with the USSS. I'm probably going to apply for Florida Highway Patrol in the summer to get a few years experience. Hopefully that helps whether I want an 1811 or 1803 job.
                            CBP Officer

                            08/31/14-Tested
                            02/28/14-TSL Received
                            03/18/14-PFT1/MED
                            07/01/14-VBT/SI
                            07/19/14-EQUIP Submitted
                            07/22/14-Credit Report Pulled

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by cur679 View Post
                              When I interned with the USSS in college back in 2010, I was 27. No military or police experience. One of the agents there was my age. MY AGE. He was a state trooper for 3 years in VA and has a degree. That's it. No military experience. Here is a special agent at 27, the same age as me, yet I have nothing under my belt. Also, another agent was a helicopter pilot in the military.

                              I'm going to be 31 in June. Right now I just have a Poli Sci degree, superior academic achievement (which seems useless), and an internship with the USSS. I'm probably going to apply for Florida Highway Patrol in the summer to get a few years experience. Hopefully that helps whether I want an 1811 or 1803 job.
                              When did this SA apply for USSS though? 2006-2007? The reality is today it is much more difficult for non-vets to get hired on as an 1811. I'm not a vet, but I applied for my job in 2008.

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