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Departments Hiring With No Polygraph. I'm Tired of Unreliable Machines!

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  • #46
    Any departments in southern cali hiring certified officers from outside of state? No worries on the poly.
    Last edited by 3rd_Watch; 12-08-2013, 11:21 AM.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country." President John F. Kennedy

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    • #47
      Originally posted by 3rd_Watch View Post
      Any departments in southern cali that don't poly?
      I know that Orange County Sheriff's Department only polygraph on a case by case basis, meaning it is more or less at the discretion of your BI.
      "The only easy day was yesterday"

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      • #48
        Good info, Department of Interior Law Enforcement don't utilize it from what I understand. Good Luck.
        “One person can make a difference and every person should try.” JFKsigpic

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        • #49
          Originally posted by cprmauldin View Post
          Most of the departments in my area use a CVSA (Computer Voice Stress Analysis). I took one and was super nervous but still passed. They are more accurate than polygraphs from what I hear.
          Last edited by jhoose91; 07-03-2013, 01:27 AM.

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          • #50
            "It's not a lie, if you believe it."
            - George Costanza.

            But seriously, this is a big issue and has been for some time. There was a big lawsuit in D.C. federal court a handful of years ago where federal applicants sued because they failed polys and insisted that they had been 100% truthful. The court said sorry, no remedy, too bad. I would recommend focusing on talking through the questions with the polygrapher to try and calm nerves. I have taken several polys and passed them all. I never lied. But at some points was told I was "reacting" to certain questions. I have no idea why, but we discussed it and cleared it up. Don't be intimidated by the process. Polygraphers are just trying to interpret data. They're not master investigators...can't take it too seriously if you truly have nothing to hide.

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            • #51
              From my personal experience, I know that Memphis TN does not polygraph...

              Border Patrol used to not have it...yet they had too many issues...racists or something...I forgot
              Last edited by Diddy41; 07-30-2016, 04:34 AM.

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              • #52
                I know a ton of people probably give you sh** for asking this question but good on you for seeking out agencies that rely on strong background investigations and that disregard junk science as a legit hiring tool. In short, the kids have a ouija board that can give more accurate answers. Here are a couple links that you should check out and at the very least it will open your eyes to just how ridiculous the polygraph's use as a hiring tool is.

                https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ROhp2aS9pQU
                https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=93_FDeMENN4

                There are several studies out there supported by empirical evidence that shows polygraphs are a little bit better in terms of accuracy when looking at one specific crime;however, when agencies attempt to use it to cover the whole scope of someone's life the reliability and validity decrease drastically.

                I won't speak for state and local agencies but federally speaking a failed poly at one of the big 3 agencies (FBI,NSA, CIA) could follow you for the rest of your career and be the reason you get declined for a job.

                My favorite polygraph question is "Have you studied how to pass this test?" Duh, who would go into any test not knowing what it's about, its history, controversy, accuracy, etc?! The NSA propaganda video linked above tries to claim the test is not adversarial in nature. I have yet to come across one person whose taken the poly who didn't come out of the exam emotionally exhausted from being called a liar for hours on end. At the end of the day a poly is nothing more than an adversarial question and answer session. It is a fools tool, nothing more and nothing less
                Last edited by kwaz; 07-31-2016, 08:05 AM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by kwaz View Post
                  I know a ton of people probably give you sh** for asking this question but good on you for seeking out agencies that rely on strong background investigations and that disregard junk science as a legit hiring tool. In short, the kids have a ouija board that can give more accurate answers. Here are a couple links that you should check out and at the very least it will open your eyes to just how ridiculous the polygraph's use as a hiring tool is.

                  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ROhp2aS9pQU
                  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=93_FDeMENN4

                  There are several studies out there supported by empirical evidence that shows polygraphs are a little bit better in terms of accuracy when looking at one specific crime;however, when agencies attempt to use it to cover the whole scope of someone's life the reliability and validity decrease drastically.

                  I won't speak for state and local agencies but federally speaking a failed poly at one of the big 3 agencies (FBI,NSA, CIA) could follow you for the rest of your career and be the reason you get declined for a job.

                  My favorite polygraph question is "Have you studied how to pass this test?" Duh, who would go into any test not knowing what it's about, its history, controversy, accuracy, etc?! The NSA propaganda video linked above tries to claim the test is not adversarial in nature. I have yet to come across one person whose taken the poly who didn't come out of the exam emotionally exhausted from being called a liar for hours on end. At the end of the day a poly is nothing more than an adversarial question and answer session. It is a fools tool, nothing more and nothing less



                  It's a bad experience. I did it twice I came inconclusive on one question came back a second time passed the question and according to them got inconclusive on the next section. The examiner stated is not a fail and I just need to come back again. Except they never called me.

                  I didn't get a change to take the test again to clear it up. They disqualified me from the process. I have more than a bad taste in my mouth about it.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by kwaz View Post
                    I know a ton of people probably give you sh** for asking this question but good on you for seeking out agencies that rely on strong background investigations and that disregard junk science as a legit hiring tool. In short, the kids have a ouija board that can give more accurate answers. Here are a couple links that you should check out and at the very least it will open your eyes to just how ridiculous the polygraph's use as a hiring tool is.

                    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ROhp2aS9pQU
                    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=93_FDeMENN4

                    There are several studies out there supported by empirical evidence that shows polygraphs are a little bit better in terms of accuracy when looking at one specific crime;however, when agencies attempt to use it to cover the whole scope of someone's life the reliability and validity decrease drastically.

                    I won't speak for state and local agencies but federally speaking a failed poly at one of the big 3 agencies (FBI,NSA, CIA) could follow you for the rest of your career and be the reason you get declined for a job.

                    My favorite polygraph question is "Have you studied how to pass this test?" Duh, who would go into any test not knowing what it's about, its history, controversy, accuracy, etc?! The NSA propaganda video linked above tries to claim the test is not adversarial in nature. I have yet to come across one person whose taken the poly who didn't come out of the exam emotionally exhausted from being called a liar for hours on end. At the end of the day a poly is nothing more than an adversarial question and answer session. It is a fools tool, nothing more and nothing less
                    Guess you missed the part where it's a process in the BI, and not the sole decider. But that's typical of the attitude from those who failed a BI. It's ALWAYS something else, not the applicant...
                    Now go home and get your shine box!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Figureout18 View Post
                      It's a bad experience. I did it twice I came inconclusive on one question came back a second time passed the question and according to them got inconclusive on the next section. The examiner stated is not a fail and I just need to come back again. Except they never called me.

                      I didn't get a change to take the test again to clear it up. They disqualified me from the process. I have more than a bad taste in my mouth about it.

                      I'd still be willing to take however many more to get on with an agency. It's stressful regardless but it has to be done.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
                        Guess you missed the part where it's a process in the BI, and not the sole decider. But that's typical of the attitude from those who failed a BI. It's ALWAYS something else, not the applicant...
                        I have taken multiple polygraphs and passed all but one. Kwaz is totally correct when he says that it will follow you until you age out or give up. The FBI seems to believe that if they poly everybody then they will never have another Robert Hansen. One inconclusive polygraph for a non law enforcement, super entry level position and they( and the rest of the alphabet boys) will treat you like a super plague that makes allergies look like Ebola.

                        And the poly has also turned into the absolute only piece of information that any agency cares to use. It is now first in line before they bother with a background investigation. Kind of makes you wonder what the point of both is if their magical machine is perfect????

                        Bottom line is it saves them money and time. If they can cut a hiring pool by half then that's however many actual backgrounds they aren't on the hook paying for. Who cares if they are wrong and vindictive about it? Remember, Aldrich Ames passed three CIA polygraphs after he was caught.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by AgentDiNozzo View Post
                          I have taken multiple polygraphs and passed all but one. Kwaz is totally correct when he says that it will follow you until you age out or give up. The FBI seems to believe that if they poly everybody then they will never have another Robert Hansen. One inconclusive polygraph for a non law enforcement, super entry level position and they( and the rest of the alphabet boys) will treat you like a super plague that makes allergies look like Ebola.

                          And the poly has also turned into the absolute only piece of information that any agency cares to use. It is now first in line before they bother with a background investigation. Kind of makes you wonder what the point of both is if their magical machine is perfect????

                          Bottom line is it saves them money and time. If they can cut a hiring pool by half then that's however many actual backgrounds they aren't on the hook paying for. Who cares if they are wrong and vindictive about it? Remember, Aldrich Ames passed three CIA polygraphs after he was caught.
                          Dinozzo you are correct. Though one doesn't have to fail a background or poly to know that it's junk science. I've never failed a background or poly personally but know many who have. I'll continue to believe the empirical based evidence and countless peer reviewed studies that actually look into the validity and reliability of such tests as opposed to listening to someone's snark and sarcasm as a foundation for a logical argument for it. Then again I question the credibility and experience of anyone who can say with a straight face that polygraph's aren't the deciding factor when everyone from the greenest rookie to the most experienced guy knows it is. In my many years of law enforcement I have never met an individual who failed a poly and was still brought on to the agency. Hey, but it is the internet/anonymous message board, so it has to be true right? lol
                          Last edited by kwaz; 08-01-2016, 06:22 AM.

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                          • #58
                            And all the agencies that are so attached and infatuated with a machine that has a specific pad for measuring the reaction of one's *****-yes I am dead serious-have unintentionally admitted their machine is about as worthless as trying to guess the dice at The Bellagio.

                            Anyone who has ever taken one knows that you fill out essentially a full background packet before they wire you up so that the dimwit who pretends to be your friend has something to attack. Once you finish and didn't "react" to any questions, why does the aforementioned ****** have to then send it in for review? And if the super review committee does bless off on it, why is the background investigation not over if the machine is so flawless? The answer campers is that it is total nonsense that agency X is using to thin out the pool. If everybody passed, they would have to actually do legit background investigations and that costs money. They would rather claim you are an unethical liar and federally crucify for the duration than spend money that Congress appropriated.

                            If anybody doubts what I am saying, ask MPDC about the felons, illegals and watchlist terrorists they hired in recent years. Jared Weinberg passed a polygraph at the same time he was being a drug kingpin

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                            • #59
                              The biggest gripe I have is...

                              Why is it that if you fail one poly it holds so much weight and follows you everywhere yet if you pass one it doesn't mean squat and given no consideration when applying elsewhere. Can we say double standard?

                              What gives? And why as taxpayers do we have to pay for multiple background investigations? If I am cleared by the X Agency why cannot I not use my clearance if transferring to Z Agency?

                              It seems Agencies are so eager to share the negatives but not the positives...maybe it's time for reform the process and the effectiveness and practices of these agencies.
                              Last edited by Ironlion09; 08-02-2016, 06:47 AM.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Diddy41 View Post
                                From my personal experience, I know that Memphis TN does not polygraph...

                                Border Patrol used to not have it...yet they had too many issues...racists or something...I forgot
                                Too much corruption, malfeasance and misconduct caught up with the BP. Years of mass expansion and bottom-of-the-barrel hiring didn't help any either.

                                The actual hammer that fell was the Anti Border Corruption Act of 2010. That act required CBP to polygraph all LEO applicants.

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