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  • Post deleted.
    Last edited by BF280; 08-10-2016, 01:31 PM.

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    • Originally posted by bellyer View Post
      Confusing indeed! You may have said previously, but do you have any degrees? I personally feel that too much emphasis is placed on college educations vice work experience, so it is unfortunate that a possible lack of degree often gets held against someone when applying for jobs. Is a lack of a degree(s) possible the difference?
      Yes, I have a degree

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      • 2012 ATF Special Agent Announcement

        Originally posted by bellyer View Post
        Confusing indeed! You may have said previously, but do you have any degrees? I personally feel that too much emphasis is placed on college educations vice work experience, so it is unfortunate that a possible lack of degree often gets held against someone when applying for jobs. Is a lack of a degree(s) possible the difference?
        I don't have a degree but have a ton of military time and current FED LEO with a TS and full scope poly and I'm starting at a 7. I may be the anomaly.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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        • Originally posted by BF280 View Post
          Warning "soapbox": All this talk about what degrees are better. I realize all degrees are not created equal, I understand that many are A LOT harder to earn than others. But, when it comes to law enforcement work I would rather work with a person who has worked the streets for 4 years than someone who has a SUPER advanced degree that just graduated. This is coming from 8 years police experience and another 5 years fed experience. Not to mention the military. And yes I have a degree as well although it is simply in criminal justice. However, I am proud of it considering I earned it while working full time as a police officer and raising a family. End of soapbox rant. Good luck to all!
          A counter point would be that, yes, experience is arguably more valuable than a 4 year degree at face value. But if you hire that guy with a degree, after 4 years he'll have 4 years experience AND a degree. Whereas the other guy will never have both. It's an investment - to both the employee and the employer. I would personally rather work with a group of agents who after 4 years are savvy and have advanced degrees. Sorry but I've worked in agencies that don't require degrees and I've worked in agencies that do. I prefer the latter. IN GENERAL, the team of "degree-havers" (I hesitate to say "educated people" because you are educated in high school) is a more professional team to work with overall.
          This, again, is in general, of course. Obviously there are people who are better and worse on both sides. But the person with the degree will eventually catch up to the experience level of the guy without the degree (i.e. the distinction of an 8 year veteran officer is negligible from a 6 year officer). But the same can't be says vice versa where the experienced officer eventually has the benefits of earning a degree (and yes I use the term "earning" a degree on purpose bc it is freaking hard work!). Like all investments, you sacrifice up front to reap the benefits in the future. If advanced degrees didn't equate to an overall better workforce, they would eventually just go away via natural selection bc they would be irrelevant. They've been around for a long long time for a reason.
          Plus, "street cop" is one skill set... "Special Agent" is an additional (not separate, but additional) skill set and, IMO, the process and practice of earning a degree lends itself to become a better investigator on complex cases with high pressure.
          Some might find everything I've just typed laughable... Maybe even that it's not P.C. But if we're being forced to compare one group to the other, that's my humble opinion. I just fail to find fault in someone investing and sacrificing to further their education. At the same time there's no fault for someone choosing to go straight into the workforce. But it's not about assigning fault. It's about choosing one or the other for the sake of this "argument".
          One last thing... I ended up typing waaaay too much there. Good Lord.
          Also... JK.

          Sent from my Mystical Ãœberphone

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          • Sent from my Mystical Ãœberphone

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            • Originally posted by Lawlor View Post
              I don't have a degree but have a ton of military time and current FED LEO with a TS and full scope poly and I'm starting at a 7. I may be the anomaly.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              See, I would think that you would start as a 9. Goes to show you how much I know

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              • See I am a FED LEO myself with a TS and have over 5 years experience. I have also worked alongside ATF as I have an ATF K9 and still I got selected for a 5. I have a B.S. in Criminal Justice also. I have a buddy who was picked up over a year ago who is literally identical to me and he got selected as a 9. I was told it's all about your resume and that is where OPM decides your grade. I am not the biggest fan of OPM but that is apparently who tells you what grade you are. I'm hoping ATF will look at my stuff and at least bump me to a 7. I'm taking the 5 no matter what but to go from a FED K9 job where my salary and built in OT reaches over a GS 12 is going to be hard to cope with for myself and my family. I'll make it work but I am truly hoping the HR department can take a second look for me.

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                • Originally posted by bayranger View Post
                  A counter point would be that, yes, experience is arguably more valuable than a 4 year degree at face value. But if you hire that guy with a degree, after 4 years he'll have 4 years experience AND a degree. Whereas the other guy will never have both. It's an investment - to both the employee and the employer. I would personally rather work with a group of agents who after 4 years are savvy and have advanced degrees. Sorry but I've worked in agencies that don't require degrees and I've worked in agencies that do. I prefer the latter. IN GENERAL, the team of "degree-havers" (I hesitate to say "educated people" because you are educated in high school) is a more professional team to work with overall.
                  This, again, is in general, of course. Obviously there are people who are better and worse on both sides. But the person with the degree will eventually catch up to the experience level of the guy without the degree (i.e. the distinction of an 8 year veteran officer is negligible from a 6 year officer). But the same can't be says vice versa where the experienced officer eventually has the benefits of earning a degree (and yes I use the term "earning" a degree on purpose bc it is freaking hard work!). Like all investments, you sacrifice up front to reap the benefits in the future. If advanced degrees didn't equate to an overall better workforce, they would eventually just go away via natural selection bc they would be irrelevant. They've been around for a long long time for a reason.
                  Plus, "street cop" is one skill set... "Special Agent" is an additional (not separate, but additional) skill set and, IMO, the process and practice of earning a degree lends itself to become a better investigator on complex cases with high pressure.
                  Some might find everything I've just typed laughable... Maybe even that it's not P.C. But if we're being forced to compare one group to the other, that's my humble opinion. I just fail to find fault in someone investing and sacrificing to further their education. At the same time there's no fault for someone choosing to go straight into the workforce. But it's not about assigning fault. It's about choosing one or the other for the sake of this "argument".
                  One last thing... I ended up typing waaaay too much there. Good Lord.
                  Also... JK.

                  Sent from my Mystical Ãœberphone
                  Where is 3.14 when we need him?
                  OUT!!

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                  • Originally posted by Radio Raheem View Post
                    Where is 3.14 when we need him?


                    Sent from my Mystical Ãœberphone
                    Last edited by bayranger; 08-10-2016, 02:55 PM.

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                    • 2012 ATF Special Agent Announcement

                      ........,,,,,,,,
                      Last edited by Lee23; 08-22-2016, 05:57 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Lee23 View Post
                        Does the ATF begin the BI before the Poly?


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        I'm kind of curious about that myself. I was notified earlier this week that my e-QIP was complete and they have everything they need at this point to begin my investigation. Then, today, I was invited for the polygraph to be taken next week. I am not sure if my BI would have actually kicked off when I was notified by e-mail that they could start my BI or if it will start at a later date. I asked a similar question on the previous page, but it was quickly swallowed up by the discussion about degrees.

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                        • All you guys talking about 5,7 or 9. Did you make sure to apply to them all? Also don't blame ATF or OPM for not selecting you at a higher grade, you should've thrown the kitchen sink at them as far as qualifications. Up to you to sell yourself, not them. If it's some obscure skill or training course don't leave it up to them to figure out how it transfers lay that sh** the [email protected]@k out or take that 5 like a man.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                          • Originally posted by Lee23 View Post
                            Does the ATF begin the BI before the Poly?


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            I believe that once upon a time, the background was supposed to come before the poly. According to my BI, that is how it used to be done. But for me, and for everyone I have talked to, the BI starts well after the polygraph.

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                            • Just got on here, I have been reading the thread since May when I put in for the schedule B announcement. Passed the written test and waiting on the fitness test. My recruiter said that the PTT will be 2-3 months following the exam. Good luck to everyone.

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                              • Any other October 15 applicants still waiting on eqip?

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