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  • #46
    Originally posted by jlac20 View Post
    With DEA, ATF, FBI, and NCIS, a degree in CJ is the most preferred degree.
    In the spirit of ensuring info posted here is accurate, I have to comment that this is bogus info for FBI and NCIS. Both of these agencies do require a bachelor's degree for agents, and both have hired agents with CJ degrees who have other relevant skills brought to the table, but to say these agencies deem CJ degrees as "most preferred" is inaccurate, as degrees in specialized skill sets like computer science, intelligence/foreign affairs, hard sciences (including forensic science), foreign languages, etc. are preferred degrees because their critical skill sets.
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    • #47
      Originally posted by Kimble View Post
      In the spirit of ensuring info posted here is accurate, I have to comment that this is bogus info for FBI and NCIS. Both of these agencies do require a bachelor's degree for agents, and both have hired agents with CJ degrees who have other relevant skills brought to the table, but to say these agencies deem CJ degrees as "most preferred" is inaccurate, as degrees in specialized skill sets like computer science, intelligence/foreign affairs, hard sciences (including forensic science), foreign languages, etc. are preferred degrees because their critical skill sets.
      That is an absolute truth/fact. My BA is in Political Science. Don't think there weren't numerous times while in the FBI, DEA or USSS process I didn't wish I had an accounting or computer science degree. That is part of the reason I went back to get my MS in something to make me more marketable.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by formerusssnusmc View Post
        I say no for CJ degree. That's what everyone does. I have that degree and wished I had something else. I was interested in CJ in college and enjoyed all CJ classes, however, I've never heard of it being a good degree choice unless you want local PD. FBI wants Accounting. Look at their requirements... They ask if you have experience in Accounting, counterterrorism, IT, Arabic etc... They do not care for CJ degrees. I would also recommend any business degree (I had several business classes) because it will prepare you for the rest of your life. Those few classes were life-changing for me. I set up a retirement, a roth IRA, I invest in stocks, I know how to get good credit etc etc.. The list goes on.
        CJ gave me the piece of paper I needed to be hired by agencies, but a business degree will give you that piece of paper AND set you up for the rest of your life in reference to saving money, buying a house, setting up retirement, setting up kids college funds etc..

        I will agree with JLAC regarding grades. CJ is much easier (based on interest and topics) when compared to business classes. If school is easy, do business. If you have trouble in school do CJ. Remember, most agencies will require you to get a 3.0 if you want a position. You may be unfit or not competitive without that 3.0 GPA.

        Take all those things into account when deciding, and good luck. You are already on the right track - starting 4 years early..

        Thanks for your service, and you will be fine with the surgery (unless you cant run afterwards, or are permanently disabled from it.) I had shoudler surgery. I tore off all ligaments during a rugby game and made a full recovery. I was cleared by the Marines, then the Secret Service and all other agencies medicals so far with no problems. (2001 surgery)


        I would agree with this. I have 10 years as an 1811 and 7 in uniform at both the federal and state level, my CRJ degree hasn't done anything other than help me meet the degree requirement. The few classes that have been useful were the psych and math classes. If anyone asks I always tell them to get a degree in something that will be useful to them in retirement. If I had it to do over again I would do some sort of business management or accounting degree. Both of these can help you while you're on the job, you'd be suprised what you can do with financials in just about any investigation.

        My CRJ degree has been the minority in most of the officers I've worked in. You'll see everything from law degrees, to accounting, to sports physiology, nursing - all kinds. I've also sat on the hiring panels and a CRJ degree wasn't given anymore weight than other degrees. I once heard a Chief of police say "education validates you for responsibility", I really believe that's true

        If you don't have a 3.0, no reason to panic, I had closer to a 2.0 than a 3.0 and I was able to get hired. Keep in mind that I started at a small local agency, gained experience, worked my way into a larger agency, and then the federal system. I know when I was coming on the 3.0 would qualify you for a higher level, GS7 instead of GS5, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

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        • #49
          cj degree

          Originally posted by Fritz1 View Post
          I would agree with this. I have 10 years as an 1811 and 7 in uniform at both the federal and state level, my CRJ degree hasn't done anything other than help me meet the degree requirement. The few classes that have been useful were the psych and math classes. If anyone asks I always tell them to get a degree in something that will be useful to them in retirement. If I had it to do over again I would do some sort of business management or accounting degree. Both of these can help you while you're on the job, you'd be suprised what you can do with financials in just about any investigation.

          My CRJ degree has been the minority in most of the officers I've worked in. You'll see everything from law degrees, to accounting, to sports physiology, nursing - all kinds. I've also sat on the hiring panels and a CRJ degree wasn't given anymore weight than other degrees. I once heard a Chief of police say "education validates you for responsibility", I really believe that's true

          If you don't have a 3.0, no reason to panic, I had closer to a 2.0 than a 3.0 and I was able to get hired. Keep in mind that I started at a small local agency, gained experience, worked my way into a larger agency, and then the federal system. I know when I was coming on the 3.0 would qualify you for a higher level, GS7 instead of GS5, but it wasn't a deal breaker.


          I concur 100%,, I do not know many FBI, DEA, or NCIS agents with a straight up CJ degree,,, they usually have language skills, former SF Operators, Attorneys, Accountants, etc. Even the FBI website says they want a little more.... see below;



          http://www.fbijobs.gov/111.asp

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Fritz1 View Post
            I would agree with this. I have 10 years as an 1811 and 7 in uniform at both the federal and state level, my CRJ degree hasn't done anything other than help me meet the degree requirement. The few classes that have been useful were the psych and math classes. If anyone asks I always tell them to get a degree in something that will be useful to them in retirement. If I had it to do over again I would do some sort of business management or accounting degree. Both of these can help you while you're on the job, you'd be suprised what you can do with financials in just about any investigation.

            My CRJ degree has been the minority in most of the officers I've worked in. You'll see everything from law degrees, to accounting, to sports physiology, nursing - all kinds. I've also sat on the hiring panels and a CRJ degree wasn't given anymore weight than other degrees. I once heard a Chief of police say "education validates you for responsibility", I really believe that's true

            If you don't have a 3.0, no reason to panic, I had closer to a 2.0 than a 3.0 and I was able to get hired. Keep in mind that I started at a small local agency, gained experience, worked my way into a larger agency, and then the federal system. I know when I was coming on the 3.0 would qualify you for a higher level, GS7 instead of GS5, but it wasn't a deal breaker.
            I think starting at a small agency is the best option also because it seems to be easier to get in, if they ever hire...lol because most people tend to be from that local town and wanna stay. The only problem with a small pd is that there is no promotion potential. I started at a small agency, and didnt really branch out until I was selected to serve on the regional gang task force in the area. After working with a few guys from a larger pd, some marshals, and even probation officers, thats when I decided I wanted to get my foot in the door on the federal side, and now im branching out again.
            God Bless America

            101st Airborne Division, Rakassans Air Assaultttttttt
            3rd Infantry Division, 2BCT

            ICE 1811
            Applied: 6/22/09
            Exam: 7/24/2009
            SI/WA: 3/2/2010
            The Call: October 26, 2010
            PRESIDIO BOUND!!!!!!!!!!

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            • #51
              My opinion on the degree is to DOUBLE major in CJ and something else. A lot of CJ degrees only require 30-45 credits of a 120 credit college degree. I've heard multiple times that GPA is huge

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              • #52
                Actually I dont have to be an 1811 to know 1811s. If you knew anything about me, my 4 years in the BOP is just that, 4 years in the BOP. I spent 5 years local PD in a Drug/Gang unit, I have been with JTTF now for over 30 months, so I think I have a little experience for what im talking about. Not only did I finish undergrad Summa Cum Laude, but also a 4.0 in Grad, so I think I know enough to speak about the education side of things also.

                When I said about 40% of LE covered positions are by individuals with some education in criminal justice, no where did I state anything about an 1811 being that only covered position, and nowhere did the OP state he wanted to be an 1811. As for the KSAs for most LE positions, there will be a choice on there to select education as a form of experience to that particular question, and its normally the next to last answer
                No, you don't need to be an 1811 to know them, but it's apparent you don't know very many, because all of the information you posted about "preferred" 1811 backgrounds is false. And I'm not the only one who caught it.

                Doesn't matter whether the OP said he wanted to be an 1811 or not. YOU used the "preferred" CJ degree in the context of becoming an 1811 - not him. And you were dead wrong, so I called you on it.

                I'm glad to give you another opportunity to toot your own horn and brag about your grades (for all of us who missed it the first time ) - but I could really care less. A 4.0 in criminal justice does not impress me, nor would it impress any of the other members of the interview panels I've sat on, and depending on where you got it from, that might make it even less impressive. What WOULD impress me would be knowing the difference between giving out facts and BS. You don't need to be a 4.0 student to do that, either.

                Armed Greeter was 100% correct: instead of focusing on the fact that you really don't know what you're talking about as far as what federal agencies are looking for, you're focusing on the minutiae: whether the OP said he wanted to be an 1811 or not? Whether your 40% includes just covered or non-covered positions? Just 1811's? All cops, period? How about all cops who are democrats? How about midgets?

                Does that really change the fact that the info you gave a kid is totally false?

                On KSA's, again, you're missing the point: maybe the KSA's for "most law enforcement positions" you've been required to write have asked about education, but ALL of them do not. I know because I've written the actual KSA's before (not completed them, but created them).

                Your information would be so much more helpful to these young applicants if you left out the self-aggrandizement and the false statements about what fed agencies are looking for and just said "this is what worked for me..."

                But again, Armed Greeter was correct, so I'll take his advice now and just quit.
                "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

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                • #53
                  I love the midget reference!

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by GreenLine View Post
                    No, you don't need to be an 1811 to know them, but it's apparent you don't know very many, because all of the information you posted about "preferred" 1811 backgrounds is false. And I'm not the only one who caught it.

                    Doesn't matter whether the OP said he wanted to be an 1811 or not. YOU used the "preferred" CJ degree in the context of becoming an 1811 - not him. And you were dead wrong, so I called you on it.

                    I'm glad to give you another opportunity to toot your own horn and brag about your grades (for all of us who missed it the first time ) - but I could really care less. A 4.0 in criminal justice does not impress me, nor would it impress any of the other members of the interview panels I've sat on, and depending on where you got it from, that might make it even less impressive. What WOULD impress me would be knowing the difference between giving out facts and BS. You don't need to be a 4.0 student to do that, either.

                    Armed Greeter was 100% correct: instead of focusing on the fact that you really don't know what you're talking about as far as what federal agencies are looking for, you're focusing on the minutiae: whether the OP said he wanted to be an 1811 or not? Whether your 40% includes just covered or non-covered positions? Just 1811's? All cops, period? How about all cops who are democrats? How about midgets?

                    Does that really change the fact that the info you gave a kid is totally false?

                    On KSA's, again, you're missing the point: maybe the KSA's for "most law enforcement positions" you've been required to write have asked about education, but ALL of them do not. I know because I've written the actual KSA's before (not completed them, but created them).

                    Your information would be so much more helpful to these young applicants if you left out the self-aggrandizement and the false statements about what fed agencies are looking for and just said "this is what worked for me..."

                    But again, Armed Greeter was correct, so I'll take his advice now and just quit.
                    Homie the bottom line is this, I dont care to impress you, and personally dont care to impress any interview board I have went to. The only person walking the face of this earth I have to impress is myself, and once that is done, I have done what I needed to do in life. You may be one of the people I have met along my path then tends to be a failure at some point in his life, so he will get on the board to try an discredit what another person say. Just like I said, and im sticking to it, a CJ degree is just that, a preferred degree for law enforcement, just like an accounting degree is the preferred degree for accounting, a J.D. is the preferred degree for lawyers, a degree in social work is the preferred degree for social working. Just because not having a degree in CJ works for alot of people, doesnt devalue a degree in CJ if u want to work in law enforcement.

                    About you writing KSA questions, who really gives a rat ***, I just stated what was on most law enforcement covered position KSA questions. I havent seen one yet that didnt ask about education unless it was not a requirement for that position. Just because you written KSA questions, doesnt impress me, support personnel (H.R.)for law enforcement does that, that is their job, or perhaps was at one point or probably now your job, more power to you. That still doesnt discredit other announcement KSA questions that ask about education as a form of training.

                    Either way it go, im still taking my stance on a CJ degree is the preferred degree in law enforcement, because that is what it is for, a career in law enforcement. If I wanted to be a social worker, I would had got a degree in social work, but just because I dont have a degree in social work, doesnt mean I dont meet the qualifications for the position. Like we all know, diversity is the beautiful thing about federal agencies from the race of people, background of people, and the education of people. Having another degree is great, it adds to the diversity of the agency which makes that agency that more efficient, so this is why alot of other degrees are great, but it still doesnt take away the fact that a degree in criminal justice is for a career in law enforcement.

                    Now that I have said all this, now on to say this. If I have offended any of you gentlemen, I am truely sorry. This is my passion, and I like to see young men wanting to work the field of law enforcement for the right reasons. All too often we are infiltrated by individuals that just want a check because what they wanted to do at first didnt pan out for them, so they jumped shift to law enforcement, and do the very minimum to keep the job, especially now with the employment situation in the country.
                    God Bless America

                    101st Airborne Division, Rakassans Air Assaultttttttt
                    3rd Infantry Division, 2BCT

                    ICE 1811
                    Applied: 6/22/09
                    Exam: 7/24/2009
                    SI/WA: 3/2/2010
                    The Call: October 26, 2010
                    PRESIDIO BOUND!!!!!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      What was the original question again? I'm just trying to figure this out. Not trying to have a lengthy discussion about this, that's already happened. But where, anywhere if you can let us know, is CJ the "preferred" degree? That is where we are all confused. Because just like the rest, with these job announcements no where have I ever seen it specify that. In fact it has been the opposite in asking for other degrees. I'm just curious. The "preferred" degree portion is just your opinion, correct?
                      Last edited by manstown; 03-20-2010, 05:32 PM.

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                      • #56
                        I just stated what was on most law enforcement covered position KSA questions. I havent seen one yet that didnt ask about education unless it was not a requirement for that position. Just because you written KSA questions, doesnt impress me, support personnel (H.R.)for law enforcement does that, that is their job, or perhaps was at one point or probably now your job, more power to you. That still doesnt discredit other announcement KSA questions that ask about education as a form of training.
                        Amazing. Only now are you qualifying your earlier statements and editing it to "most positions." Point was that you have not seen ALL KSA's for law enforcement positions and are in now way qualified to make the statements you made earlier. The fact that you were not even aware that KSA's are usually written by supervisory agents - not "support personnel" underscores this nicely.

                        My intent in this thread was only to point out that this "CJ is preferred" line regarding feds is all just YOUR OPINION (and is still BS - I have direct experience with this and you do not. Period.). And the fact that's it's just YOUR OPINION is something you've only finally acknowledged now, 3 pages into this argument. Thanks for (finally) making my point. You had to back-peddle to do it, but that's fine.

                        You may be one of the people I have met along my path then tends to be a failure at some point in his life, so he will get on the board to try an discredit what another person say.
                        Um...yeah. That must be it. Maybe that's why I know the difference between spinning a line of BS and telling someone the right thing. If that's the case, I'll take being a "failure" any day. But your need to bag on me instead of addressing your own "failure" to give accurate information only supports everything I've said about your previous posts.

                        When you finally get more than a couple of years mixing with feds and find out just how many of them have no CJ background and could care less about a CJ degree, maybe you'll see where I'm coming from.

                        Manstown - never pass up the opportunity to throw in a midget reference .
                        "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I'm in the same boat as the author of the thread. I'm a year from spending four years in the U.S. Army assigned to the 82nd Airborne. My plan was to ETS and get my masters. My only question is should I spend more time in the military to be more competitive for an 1811 position in addition to the degree? Is four years enough qualifying experience? Sorry it's hard to search because I'm deployed and using my phone.
                          Last edited by ElevenBravo; 03-22-2010, 12:35 PM.

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                          • #58
                            I would say MOST 1811's DO NOT HAVE military experience. The experience will give you veteran's preference points (although this doesn't really help all that much - maybe 5 points on a written test score etc..) A general enlistment is plenty. The main thing you have to do is get your college degree and get at least 3.0 GPA in that degree. If you spend 6 years in the military and instead of 4 - the veterans pref points are the same... The point in getting 1811 is applying early - I had military experience, combat experience, fully cleared background, LEO experience, college degree with high GPA and I will still be in the academy with people who met the minimum requirements (21, degree, breathing). I wish I had applied sooner, this wait - especially after being cleared, sucks

                            I would not spend any more time in the military. One term serving this country is enough. Also - you will be competitive with a college degree and military experience. If 21 year olds are in the academy now (which they are for DEA, ATF, ICE as we speak) you are fine. Just make sure you do well in the application process - good test score, good medical report from doc, good physical fitness score, do well in your interview etc.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              One term serving this country is enough. Also - you will be competitive with a college degree and military experience.
                              +1. Unless you're shooting for some HIGHLY specialized position in the fed realm, one military tour and a 4-year degree is enough to make you competitive.
                              "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

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